I would agree to this. If you ignore the polygamy and banning of certain acts that seem kind of unreasonable, many Mormons are indeed nice people.
Out of all the Christian sects a Mormon is the most likely to communicate with and care for a stranger in my experience. You can argue Jehovah's Witnesses like to communicate more but knocking on doors is not communication, it's alienation.
Sure, Mormons are a nice bunch, but most people are. I disagree about that knocking on doors and testifying is alienation. Just the opposite seems true to me. Consider the fact that they always travel in pairs, so constant communication. I would imagine that elderly people would be quite accommodating to a sharp dressed, polite and intelligent young man on a mission. I for one, look forward to inviting these young men to share their views. And always find them curious about my perspective.
You were describing Mormons as generally nice people in your previous argument. When these young men go on there missions I think it's more a right of passage and a character builder. Dealing in person with a man yelling Fuck Jehovah Witnesses with integrity and levity is respectable. I've only dealt with them on 3 occasions and enjoyed their company and truly interested in hinduism.
You see a scum shove down opinions into your throat, harassing you. I operate my life in such a way as to seek out a fresh perspective in order to exchange ideas and learn. When I have a guest in my home, it is my responsibility to set a tone and subtly adjust as needed. Certainly a person harassing or lecturing me in my home is my fault.
I'm disputing your closed minded hostility directed at Mormons. I'm disputing your choice of usernames when you're unwilling to initiate a dialog that could lead to a lively debate. I'm disputing your assertion that harassment even occurs. And I disputing your change of opinion from believing them to be nice and helpful to forcing a religion down your neck.
Conscientiousness is strongly associated with religious belief (Source 1) and thus it makes sense that religious people are on average more hard working.
Because he knows what I say is true. The insecurity from those on the Left is clinical. They hate having people like me shining a light on their inhumanity.
To hide their support for even No Restriction abortions, they must demonize the messenger.
No. It's simply pro-choice. And it doesn't bore you to preach, it's the whole reason you're in here launching debates almost no one is unbanned to participate in.
Spanking has been proven for thousands of years to be the greatest tool this world has ever known for raising up children with respect for others, for hard work and responsible lifestyles.
It brings peace to a household whereby the children respect their parent's authority. They also grow up to respect the authority of Teachers, of their employers, police force, etc.
I also believe there should be much more love than discipline shown to our children. When children grow up with constant angry discipline, and little love, they learn to grow up with the same anger as shown to them.
A spanking followed by love is a strong message to a person's insecurities. It sends a message that we can screw up in life, pay the consequences, but that we are still loved and someone worth loving.
As the Left has ushered in this "timeout" nonsense for fear of going against the Political correct Big brother's non spanking directive, they wonder why their children grow up with little respect for authority or moral responsible lifestyles.
I believe in spanking, was spanked as a child, etc. but guess what? I spanked my one child but one time. He learned very quickly and with that one spanking, the tantrums stopped.
If children have no fear of a timeout, they learn very early on in life that the consequences for bad behavior is nothing to worry about. You might have noticed how troube makers in schools do not fear the laughable consequences.
Please don't insult intelligent people by comparing spanking to beating or abuse.
"Spanking has been proven for thousands of years to be the greatest tool this world has ever known for raising up children with respect for others, for hard work and responsible lifestyles."
I figured, you are an absolute hypocrite. You constantly champion "protect the vulnerable children" while you support abusing them.
Respect for others? It is the ultimate lack of respect to physically dominate vulnerable, defenseless people (this is why bullies are the bad guys).
It brings peace to a household whereby the children respect their parent's authority. They also grow up to respect the authority of Teachers, of their employers, police force, etc.
(Application of Force on the Vulnerable) /= Peace.................
Rather, it builds fear, resentment, anxiety, ect. inside of a household and teaches children that the rule of force is an acceptable/respectable principle.
They "respect" authority because they have been traumatized, and cowed into obedience from social conditioning (much like animals in a circus).
A spanking followed by love is a strong message to a person's insecurities. It sends a message that we can screw up in life, pay the consequences, but that we are still loved and someone worth loving.
No. It gives children a form of Stockholm Syndrome.
I believe in spanking, was spanked as a child, etc. but guess what? I spanked my one child but one time. He learned very quickly and with that one spanking, the tantrums stopped.
Do you think that children should be able to spank their parents/guardians/teachers when they "misbehave"? Let me guess, No? How about when the child grows up and the power dynamic shifts and the parents (in many cases) are no longer far physically larger/stronger than the child (and in quite a number of cases the kids become physically superior to the parents adults)? Let me guess, No? Bullies only like to target the vulnerable and defenseless.
I believe in spanking, was spanked as a child, etc. but guess what? I spanked my one child but one time. He learned very quickly and with that one spanking, the tantrums stopped.
I was spanked as a child also (and smacked across the face, ect.). But of course they only did this when I was not even 4 ft. and less than 100lbs. I wonder why they never tried it when I grew up to be very athletic 6'3 225+ lbs? Funny how that works..
If parents/adults rule by the principle of force, than the children/offspring have every right to "play by their rules" (although I don't think anyone should be playing by these rules).
If parents think they can treat their kids in any way they want, and apply yelling, spanking, hitting, ect. authoritarian tactics and expect that the kids are always going to be around when they grow up for Family get-to-togethers over the holidays and what not, then they are expecting their children to live a life suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. The children when they grow up should not put up with this dynamic and adults/parents should not be at all surprised if the kids want nothing to do with the parents.
Please don't insult intelligent people by comparing spanking to beating or abuse.
Most adults are happily oblivious to how unrespectable people they are
Wow, what an absolute joke you are. You spewed the most ludicrous lies about what spanking is and compared it to abuse.
Why are you calling him a fool when you are the one who likes hurting kids?
You're sick. If we ever cross paths in the street I'll be sure to give you a good slap in the mouth. Then you can tell me how it isn't abuse. You psychotic, straw-chewing, rednecked rent-a-clown
@TheSnake. Why are you calling him a fool when you are the one who likes hurting kids?
You're sick. If we ever cross paths in the street I'll be sure to give you a good slap in the mouth. Then you can tell me how it isn't abuse.
Thank you TheSnake.
For the record, I was a Security Guard for several years and on one instance while working at a Grocery Store I witnessed a Mother (probably in her thirties) telling her son who was >5 year old to "shut up" in a highly annoyed voice, and then smacked him hard in the face. I confronted her on it because people like this (and FromWithin) need to be confronted on such a wild abuse of power. Likewise, if I saw a teenage-early twenties male tell their Mom to "shut up" and then smack their Mother as hard as they could in the face (in order to get their mother to shut up, particularly if they were clearly much larger, stronger than their mother), then I would be essentially equally outraged and take the same position as with the child based on the same principle of the balance of power and dominating the more vulnerable (i.e. this is a logically consistent framework, or if anything, the child is still much more vulnerable than the mother in this example).
The salient difference in this example is that children tend to be abused by their parents/adults with impunity in our society while if a child did this to their parent/adult there would be outrage, moral condemnation, backlash, consequences, ect.
Why do so many fools populate these debate sites. Oh that's right, they have no one else who knows them that would waste one second istening to their judgmental hate.
Debate sites are great places to hide their identitties and spew hatred on others.
So you would think it was ethically justified (even necessary) for your child spank you when you "misbehave"? Or another grown adult? Or you would spank another grown adult?
If you truly don't understand the difference between parents spanking their children to teach them valuable life lessons, verses adults spanking adults, or children spanking adults, it's time to ignore such childish lunacy.
A game? If I saw you "misbehaving" and I walked up to you, forced you to turn around, bend over, and strike you repeatedly on your as* (against your will) to the point that you cry, what kind of psychological effect do you think this would have on you if you knew you were subject to this anytime you did something I or someone else viewed as "misbehaving"/"out-of-line"? Do you think it would be a positive and enriching experience as you are claiming it is for children? Or rather damaging?
Is this the intellect of Liberals?
I'm not Liberal. This is your minds attempt to "pigeon-hole" me based on your limited range of knowledge.
FW, I agree with your position and found the arguments disputing it were abusive and inflammatory. These debaters were more than likely a victim of child abuse and unable to discern blatant abuse to responsible parents disciplining a child with love and respect. Remembering that each child is an individual requiring varying corrective measures. I rarely got the "belt", was never cursed or yelled, never embaressed or ridiculed. Respect and obedience were unconditional rules while enjoying an independant and responsible life. The last time I got the belt was at age 12. Before that was 10years. I was sure I had outgrown the belt, but throwing snowballs at cars was disrespectful and dangerous. My friend by chance landed one inside of a car and almost lost control. My Dad calmly stated that thiis warranted the belt. First time I didn't cry and it didn't hurt hardly but I distintly remember feeling regret for a new feeling...making my Dad punish me. My long winded point is how a measured balanced approach to discipline is in no way abuse. The real psychological abuse of a lack of consequences, lack of respect, lack of responsibility will likely result in a broken person. Sense of entitlement. Handouts instead of hard work. Or even worse, a lack of self control leads to a prescription of adhd or SSRI meds.
I'm glad your parents understood real love for their children. They understood that discipline is the most loving responsible thing any parent could do for their child.
The parents who care more for themselves want their children out of their hair, and simply let them go to every party, hang out with bad elements, etc. etc.
They are not willing to put in the effort it takes to raise responsible children.
FW, I agree with your position and found the arguments disputing it were abusive and inflammatory. These debaters were more than likely a victim of child abuse and unable to discern blatant abuse to responsible parents disciplining a child with love and respect.
The entire intent of spanking is to use physical abuse in order to get the child to capitulate and obey the demands of the parent/adult. Why don't you apply the same principle to other people (and have others apply it to you) if it is a sound ethical principle and effective "corrective measure"?
I rarely got the "belt", was never cursed or yelled, never embaressed or ridiculed. Respect and obedience were unconditional rules while enjoying an independant and responsible life. The last time I got the belt was at age 12. Before that was 10years. I was sure I had outgrown the belt, but throwing snowballs at cars was disrespectful and dangerous. My friend by chance landed one inside of a car and almost lost control. My Dad calmly stated that thiis warranted the belt. First time I didn't cry and it didn't hurt hardly but I distintly remember feeling regret for a new feeling...making my Dad punish me. My long winded point is how a measured balanced approach to discipline is in no way abuse.
Well, you just bolstered my argument that children who are abused by their parents as children go on to live a life suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome unless they recognize the fowl play for what it is..
The last time I got the belt was at age 12. Before that was 10years
Hmmm... I wonder why he stopped right when you hit puberty? It seems highly likely that you misbehaved as a teenager just as when you were a child? Would it not have been beneficial to apply the same "corrective measure"? Perhaps because you are becoming more physically/mentally mature and were not as entirely helpless as you were before and could potentially "fight back" in various ways? I know that since I was 13 years old, if my parents tried to continue that type of discipline they would have been unable to because physically I had grown enough that I was already physically superior to my father and mentally I would be much more cognizant of the malpractice that was taking place and could tell on them (i.e. it is not you that they care about, they care about saving their own as*).
My long winded point is how a measured balanced approach to discipline is in no way abuse.
Again, if you misbehaved as an adult, would you think it was justified for another adult to "belt" you in response? Why or why not?
The real psychological abuse of a lack of consequences, lack of respect, lack of responsibility will likely result in a broken person. Sense of entitlement. Handouts instead of hard work. Or even worse, a lack of self control leads to a prescription of adhd or SSRI meds.
This is all asserted as though it were self-evidently true as a corollary to not being spanked/belted as a child, while it is not at all. In fact, there is an array of studies that bear out how damaging spanking/corporal punishment is for children (and more broadly toward people, but particularly children).
I appreciate your level headed response and valid points. But having a peer as an adult spank in response to a (made up transgression) is not a productive response. The dynamic between father and son is not one of equals. It is a relationship ranging from a responsibility to keep me alive, or can be monetarily held to pay for my mistakes, even the composure I displayed being disrespected last night at the store was a result of my dad's examples. Life provides painful consequences to reinforce a distinct memory of the action responsible. Shit, just yesterday I rode my bike past a spot that my carelessness resulted in a pretty bad wipeout almost 5 years ago. I don't remember ever riding past there any other time, although I know I did. Not every time, but sometimes I reflect on that stupid decision I made causing me a good amount of hurt. I will never jump off that curb not knowing if cars are coming. I racked my brain trying to remember an example when I had to use measured force to inflict pain constructively........here it is. I had a roommate who drank malt liquor and broke things. On one occasion his head put a hole in the wall and came downstairs accusing my black friend. His clouded reasoning devised some kind of logic that it was impossible that he did, thus it must be him. Stupid story short, Mike was respecting my home by not clocking him out. I put my foot behind his and gave a tiny shove. Well, drew landed kinda hard and then started crying. Hole was patched the next day and he apologized.
My dad did punish me at 14 for smoking in the house. Essentially the only rule I had. I could've easily stepped outside. You were correct in saying I became to mature. Because my maturity affected the lack of privacy I felt with my door removed. Never smoked in my room again.
------Again, if you misbehaved as an adult, would you think it was justified for another adult to "belt" you in response? Why or why not?------
I can't think of a reasonable scenario. If I did something incredibly stupid and resulted in that person being injured. And he suggested say a punch to the arm as retaliation....Yes of course I would do it.
In regards to medicating children's bad behaviour instead of correcting it???That medicine given to a child is truly abusive.
But having a peer as an adult spank in response to a (made up transgression) is not a productive response. The dynamic between father and son is not one of equals.
I am discussing offenses that are either equally as bad or worse than what children commit. Would you support the application of the same principle of force "corrective mechanism" that adults/parents apply on children?
The fact that they are peers (adult-adult) demonstrates that the kids are even more vulnerable.
It is a relationship ranging from a responsibility to keep me alive
I am not arguing that if a car is approaching and I child is aimlessly walking into the street that the parents shouldn't be able to pull them back to the sidewalk. That is an example of a legitimate use of force. Forcing a child (or person generally) to turn around, bend over, and strike them repeatedly on the ass with hand/belt to the point that they cry is not a legitimate use of force and your parents/adults would very quickly realize how "out of line" that type of behavior is if you (the child) did it to them when you grew up and they committed a punishable offense. They are being bullies/hypocrites and the fact that you are still standing up for them and their gratuitous behavior is evidence of how damaging this is to children throughout their lives (reasoning, Mommy/Daddy wouldn't abuse me, they love me and want what is best for me?).
Stupid story short, Mike was respecting my home by not clocking him out. I put my foot behind his and gave a tiny shove. Well, drew landed kinda hard and then started crying. Hole was patched the next day and he apologized
If it was you in reverse, would your friend have been allowed to use similar force on you? I'm going to venture a guess and say "yes". Now, is that case with the parent/child relationship? No.
My dad did punish me at 14 for smoking in the house.
Has your Dad committed any gratuitous, punishable offenses (I already know the answer is "yes" just based off of our interaction). Did you punish him in an analogous way?
Listen, what am suggesting is a simple concept, that the parents are held responsible to their own operative moral principles. If they yell at you, spank, belt, make threats, ect. at you/child when they commit an offense (or otherwise), then this would be legitimate behavior in return based on their own principles universally applied. Now, I do not think it is legitimate either way, however if that is the framework that bullies are going to put in place, then you should demand that they are logically consistent with it.
As for your larger story about the use of force, I think are conflating my position with pacifism, which I am not a pacifist. I am against the unwarranted, wicked application of force on vulnerable and helpless sectors of the population with impunity (in fact, it is done with a great deal of pride).
It is true that the pro-lifers are more equal in their outlook on humanity but what I find disturbing is their lack of comprehension that some things matter more than having rigid equality in one's legal system.
For instance, would you say that the world is better or worse if many unwanted children are sprouting up everywhere?
Simply put, it's higher crime rate, higher child abuse and neglect rates and higher rate of the abused and/or neglected children growing up to perpetuate the vicious cycle onto their offspring.
Abortion is the lesser evil, whether or not it's rigid in 'equality'.
You live in denial if you think our culture has improved with respect to crime rates, drug use, child abuse, etc.
Look at the utter disrepect for human life today. We seldom in the past had these mass killings of innocent people with no connection to the killer.
Today the Democrat Party even supports killing healthy viable late term babies for any reason up to birth. We have women throwing newborns in trash hoppers because they have lost all sense of value to life whether it be a baby a month before birth or after traveling down that birth canal.
Killing the child before possibly having a hard life is NEVER the answer. The answer is addressing the core reasons for all the broken homes, all the unwed pregnancies, all the hard lives, etc.
It's a moral issue. Killing the child can never be the answer. It's but a quick fix to a slow dissentegration of our world. We are seeing the results when ife becomes so cheap.
As the Left has separated God from our public, these problems are only getting worse.
Do you understand the concept of 'lesser' and 'greater'?
You are talking about there still being evil but not comprehending that it's a much less evil society than the prolife one that's existed throughout history and which led to slavery.#
It is not true that all prolifers are confederate slave state rednecks but it's true that all rednecks are prolife.
Hogwash, I guarantee you that racist people have no problem with abortion for Black babies. Did you know that abortion in the Black community is far higher than in the White community? I believe racism has much to do with abortion.
You can not get more evil then purposely supporting the killing of innocent viable unborn babies for any reason up to birth. This is what the Democrat Party supports.
I thought about it for a nano second. Slavery is not legal today. The only way racists can now weed out Black people is kill them through abortion. They have no more use for them in their plantation fields.
There are lot of useless people who think they are hard working.
Lazy people are the norm and so are stupid people, in fact most people are both. . It's amazing how much you stand out in this world just by being worth anything at all in the first place.
If you are stupid and hard working you are wasting your hard work.
Being delusional and brainwashed is par for the course for an average citizen. Fluoride, refined sugar, msg, metals in vaccines, prozac, narcotics, endless war and surveillance all contribute to that state. Being of the mormon faith gives one a community centric sense of belonging that contribute to networking which leads to a strong support group.
Yes, there's a lot of value in being a good worker, a good cog in the machine...as opposed to a free-thinking and acting human...when it comes to making some bureaucrat rich.
The Liberal definition of Free thinking........................Government dependent living off tax payers because they believe they are entitled to other's money.
1. The rule of law is tyranny. Laws are in place to protect the status quo. It protects the powerful and makes it hard for the weak to become powerful.
2. The world owes you nothing. And yet, when you are born, you owe the world in the form of taxes. You have to pay taxes for stuff you never agreed you wanted even if you don't use it.
If those arguments do not hold water, then it is a good thing I do not have to defend libs ;)
Such as nameless faceless drones raining down terror on woman and children and the elderly, simultaneously making survivors into fighters Unable to engage the enemy in conventional warfare with honor and mutual respect.
Drones are not on a mission with the express purpose of kiling innocent viable babies.
Their mission is to kill a blood thirsty murderer. If innocent people with no connection to the murderer get killed, it is a very sad situation, but not the goal.
These terrorists live amongst people who support them.
Such as nameless faceless drones raining down terror on woman and children and the elderly, simultaneously making survivors into fighters Unable to engage the enemy in conventional warfare with honor and mutual respect.
I like your points here, but let me clarify. The rule of law also gives the false sense of equality and fairness in the face of an obvious bias favoring the powerful. Maintaining power is achieved by protecting and suppressing the truth. State taxes, separate from income is necessary, however having our currency owned by a foreign bank and then only circulated to Americans as a loan with interest. Interest is collected by your labor and designed to never be repayed. Perpetual debt servitude on paper not backed by anything of value other than a policy of trading oil strictly in dollars. As an example of debt slavery...imagine you earned $100 and put that money under your mattress. Since no value is assigned to the currency the bank will print more money, tack on an interest and circulate. Add inflation as a policy and now goods and services cost more. $100 a year later will have the spending power of $80.
Alright so basically you guys are supposedly adults meaning you don't believe in imaginary friends but that means your being A grade stupid because religions are basically being a kiss ass to a none existent peso
Try looking at facts. Since the the lie of the Left's separation of Church and State, our welfare roles and those living off Government in one shape or form has exploded.
You speak to hard work which is what God mentions very often in the Bible.
Try thinking before speaking. Spewing bigoted rheotric is no place for a debate site.
Sorry, I wrote that wrong. You do need hard work to achieve great things. But religion outlaws curiosity and free inquiry, which are incredibly important. The world needs people who challenge the norms and laws. That is how we achieve breakthroughs. Hope this clarifies my earlier statement.
