We make life heaven or hell right here "on earth" and unlike any other species we have the choice which way to play the game.
Unfortunately there are enough (e.g ISIS, Taliban etc) who make the wrong choice which directly or indirectly affects so many others.
There is no after life, we do our best and have only one go at it, when we're dead, we're dead and that's it we are only another species of animal anyway so just "do unto others" and get on with being considerate, thoughtful, kind and helpful and we'll be in heaven right here on earth.
The rather dangerous assumption underlying your argument is that our behavior is a consequence of our own discretion. Not only is there no proof that free will exists, but there is a growing body of scientific research that proves that at least some of our behavior is determined by forces beyond our control (even when be believe them to be a consequence of free will). By attributing negative and positive consequences to choice, you dismiss the variables which actually produce those consequences. By casting those consequences as "heavenly" or "hellish" (or "right" and "wrong) you project your own subjective values onto reality, which further obfuscates objective reality.
I would suggest instead that there is no heaven or hell, in life or after it. There is only what is, and to define that reality in subjective notions of right and wrong is misguided. It prevents us from seeing what is as it actually is, supplanting that with our preference for what would be.
My gratitude for your compliment, as well as your original post. I suspected it was posed to elicit a more thorough exchange than might commonly occur on a subject such as this.
Do you think he is no going to go away and read the whole Bible? Here you had an opportunity to spread the word of God and you've blown it. You fail at Christianity :)
Do you mean the fiction of Global warming alarmists? These biased so called scientists are the Flat Earthers of yesterday. I would trust what the Bible says a million times more than activist Global warming idiots with an agenda. Most of the Bible's predictions have come true where most of the Global warming idiots have been wrong on their predictions.
Where has the global warming been these past 20 years. Where are all the hurricanes that were going to start hitting the est coast from the warmer atlantic ocean. Oh that's right, it did not happen.
"Do you mean the fiction of Global warming alarmists? These biased so called scientists are the Flat Earthers of yesterday. I would trust what the Bible says a million times more than activist Global warming idiots with an agenda. Most of the Bible's predictions have come true where most of the Global warming idiots have been wrong on their predictions." So do you ignore most of the scientific community, or just science that contradicts your religion and political agenda?
"Where has the global warming been these past 20 years. Where are all the hurricanes that were going to start hitting the est coast from the warmer atlantic ocean. Oh that's right, it did not happen." You have already been told why that makes absolutely no sense. Many times.
Do you mean the fiction of Global warming alarmists?
No. I was rater clearly referring to the Bible. I am not even going to dignify your attempt to bring another unrelated debate into this one; it is a blatant red herring as the accuracy of scientists on the subject of climate change has absolutely no bearing upon the accuracy of the Bible... which you have utterly failed to demonstrate beyond one simplistic and unfounded assertion.
Most people will end up in Hell. According to this website there are about 2.18 Billion Christians in the world. That's not even half of the world population. With the decline of religion and the movement towards naturalism and self-sustained thinking religion will slowly fade, or at least Christianity will.
Humanity can choose to follow God, but God will not force one to believe in him. It's up to the person to decide. Humans were created to be happy and live in harmony with God.
But if one is raised in a society that is not Christian, by parents who are not Christian, and is barely (if at all) exposed to Christianity how can they be expected to become one?
If one belongs to another religion that has the same belief, are they to be sent to hell simply for picking the wrong god?
If one simply can not find a way to believe in god, but performs endless good tasks and lives a benevolent life, are they truly to be scorned and punished? What sort of justice is that, and does it not indicate a level of vanity on the part of God?
But if one is raised in a society that is not Christian, by parents who are not Christian, and is barely (if at all) exposed to Christianity how can they be expected to become one?
I guess you can't. If the humans before them had chosen to be Christian maybe the outcome would be different. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think that's the reality of it.
If one belongs to another religion that has the same belief, are they to be sent to hell simply for picking the wrong god?
Yes, all other gods, according to the Bible, are false gods.
If one simply can not find a way to believe in god, but performs endless good tasks and lives a benevolent life, are they truly to be scorned and punished? What sort of justice is that, and does it not indicate a level of vanity on the part of God?
If one simply can not find a way to believe in god, but performs endless good tasks and lives a benevolent life, are they truly to be scorned and punished? What sort of justice is that, and does it not indicate a level of vanity on the part of God?
One who lives a good live, but denies Christ has chosen to abandon God. They will be subject to punishment. God is justice. If God gives law and people fail to follow the law people are punished. If God kept handing out pardons the law might as well not exist.
"I guess you can't. If the humans before them had chosen to be Christian maybe the outcome would be different. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think that's the reality of it." So you believe God will send them to hell for eternity, essentially through no fault of their own?
"Yes, all other gods, according to the Bible, are false gods." I recognize that but I am referring to the intent of the worship. That being said, I think you pretty much answered my question in the above sentence.
"One who lives a good live, but denies Christ has chosen to abandon God. They will be subject to punishment. God is justice. If God gives law and people fail to follow the law people are punished. If God kept handing out pardons the law might as well not exist." I really just do not understand. Why would he make the most vital law be "worship me"? That is not a requirement for one to be just, or good, or benevolent. There are those of us who, though we have tried, simply can not "choose" to believe in god or the divinity of Christ. I was raised Catholic, and at multiple times in my life wanted to be Christian, for a variety of reasons. I tried to convince myself to believe in god and Christianity, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't. I did not "choose" to abandon god, I simply could not believe in god. Yet you think god will send me to hell, regardless of how good I am to my fellow man. Again, doesn't that seem extremely unjust? Doesn't it seem vain, that the most important thing to god is that you worship him?
So you believe God will send them to hell for eternity, essentially through no fault of their own?
Yes.
I really just do not understand. Why would he make the most vital law be "worship me"?
The law is to accept Christ.
I was raised Catholic, and at multiple times in my life wanted to be Christian, for a variety of reasons. I tried to convince myself to believe in god and Christianity, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't. I did not "choose" to abandon god, I simply could not believe in god. Yet you think god will send me to hell, regardless of how good I am to my fellow man. Again, doesn't that seem extremely unjust? Doesn't it seem vain, that the most important thing to god is that you worship him?
I was also raised Catholic and changed to Christianity a few years ago. This story still sounds like you have abandoned God. God isn't an evidence based God. He is faith based. If you stretch out you hand he will grab it. Will God send you to Hell? I am not God and I cannot judge. God will determine your fate along with mine. Doesn't seem unjust to me as God defines what is just. The most important thing is accepting Christ. Anyone can "worship" God.
But why? Why would a benevolent god send people to hell through no fault of their own?
"The law is to accept Christ" I will rephrase my question: Why would he make the most vital law be "worship Christ, or go to hell"?
"I was also raised Catholic and changed to Christianity a few years ago. This story still sounds like you have abandoned God. " I could not have "abandoned" god because I never had a belief in God, no matter how hard I tried. How can I abandon God if I never had belief in God?
"Anyone can "worship" God." So are you saying that people who do not actually believe in God should essentially "go through the motions"? If so, does that mean legitimate belief and is not integral to prayer and worship?
But why? Why would a benevolent god send people to hell through no fault of their own?&&
God doesn't send people to Hell. God only sends people to Heaven.
I will rephrase my question: Why would he make the most vital law be "worship Christ, or go to hell"?
You need to replace "worship" with "accept". It's your ticket to Heaven.
I could not have "abandoned" god because I never had a belief in God, no matter how hard I tried. How can I abandon God if I never had belief in God?
You had the idea of God. You chose not to pursue God. You have abandoned God.
So are you saying that people who do not actually believe in God should essentially "go through the motions"? If so, does that mean legitimate belief and is not integral to prayer and worship?
"God doesn't send people to Hell. God only sends people to Heaven."
How does he not? There are more planes than Heaven and Hell (Purgatory, Limbo), and God set up the system that determines who goes where. So effectively, God sends people to their final destination. Thus my question still stands.
"You need to replace "worship" with "accept". It's your ticket to Heaven." I don't understand. I accept that Jesus Christ was a person who existed. I do not worship him as divine.
"You had the idea of God. You chose not to pursue God. You have abandoned God." I know that sounds reasonable to you since you believe in God, but to someone who doesn't, you can't just "choose" to suddenly believe in God. I never believed in God, I was just told I should, so even when I tried to choose to believe in God, I couldn't. One does not suddenly "decide" to go from being an atheist or agnostic to a theist.
"No. The first thing to do is to accept Christ."
When you say "accept" Christ, you are (I am assuming) referring to his divinity, which one can not do unless they believe in God, and thus that question still stands.
How does he not? There are more planes than Heaven and Hell (Purgatory, Limbo), and God set up the system that determines who goes where. So effectively, God sends people to their final destination. Thus my question still stands.
If you read Revelations you will find out that Satan brings people to Hell. Sin brings people to Hell. Hell wasn't created for Humans. It was created for those who are full of sin (Satan and his followers). Once the fall of man occurred sin became intertwined with humans and now people are bound to Hell unless they reach out for God. If you name isn't in the book of life God doesn't call you up.
I don't understand. I accept that Jesus Christ was a person who existed. I do not worship him as divine.
You have to accept him into your life and believe in him. Accepting existence isn't what I meant.
I know that sounds reasonable to you since you believe in God, but to someone who doesn't, you can't just "choose" to suddenly believe in God.
I believe you could if you try. Like I said before God is a faith based god. You put your faith in him. He doesn't require convincing or proof. You just have to take that step.
I never believed in God, I was just told I should, so even when I tried to choose to believe in God, I couldn't. One does not suddenly "decide" to go from being an atheist or agnostic to a theist.
I'm pretty sure you could if you wanted to. If God is faith based you can place your faith in him at anytime.
When you say "accept" Christ, you are (I am assuming) referring to his divinity, which one can not do unless they believe in God, and thus that question still stands.
A person most certainly can place their faith in Christ.
"If you read Revelations you will find out that Satan brings people to Hell. Sin brings people to Hell. Hell wasn't created for Humans. It was created for those who are full of sin (Satan and his followers). Once the fall of man occurred sin became intertwined with humans and now people are bound to Hell unless they reach out for God. If you name isn't in the book of life God doesn't call you up.'
But you already acknowledged that people can go to heaven not due to their sin, but due to circumstances outside their influence.
"You have to accept him into your life and believe in him. Accepting existence isn't what I meant."
Again, one can not "choose" to believe that Christ is divine if they did not before. I know that sounds reasonable to you because you believe in the divinity of Christ, but as someone who has tried to "choose" to believe that, I assure you, it isn't.
"I believe you could if you try. Like I said before God is a faith based god. You put your faith in him. He doesn't require convincing or proof. You just have to take that step."
I already told you, I did try. For years.
"A person most certainly can place their faith in Christ."
Of course they could, but that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if one did previously consider Christ to be divine, they generally can not "choose" to suddenly believe that he is divine.
But you already acknowledged that people can go to heaven not due to their sin, but due to circumstances outside their influence.
What did I say?
Again, one can not "choose" to believe that Christ is divine if they did not before. I know that sounds reasonable to you because you believe in the divinity of Christ, but as someone who has tried to "choose" to believe that, I assure you, it isn't.
I'm quite sure you can just because God is faith based.
I already told you, I did try. For years.
I wasn't specifically speaking about you, but you apply as well. You have to work past your doubts. Did you ever pray or meditate on scripture?
Of course they could, but that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if one did previously consider Christ to be divine, they generally can not "choose" to suddenly believe that he is divine.
"So you believe God will send them to hell for eternity, essentially through no fault of their own?" "Yes."
"But if one is raised in a society that is not Christian, by parents who are not Christian, and is barely (if at all) exposed to Christianity how can they be expected to become one?" "I guess you can't. If the humans before them had chosen to be Christian maybe the outcome would be different. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I think that's the reality of it."
"I'm quite sure you can just because God is faith based." Again, as someone who tried to have faith in Christ's divinity and God, I can tell you it really takes more than just "I choose to believe".
"I wasn't specifically speaking about you, but you apply as well. You have to work past your doubts. Did you ever pray or meditate on scripture?"
Yes, for years. I went to church, prayed, meditated, went over scripture again and again, and my doubts never ceased.
"This sentence makes no sense to me." That is because you read it correctly :P It should have been "I am saying if one did not previously consider Christ to be divine, they generally can not "choose" to suddenly believe that he is divine".
I did say that. I thought you were implying something else, but yes.
Yes, for years. I went to church, prayed, meditated, went over scripture again and again, and my doubts never ceased.
Well, rare case indeed. Unfortunate of course, but according to the Pope you may still be able to go to Heaven. I always wondered if the Vatican held secret scriptures and used it only for thier traditional means.
That is because you read it correctly :P It should have been "I am saying if one did not previously consider Christ to be divine, they generally can not "choose" to suddenly believe that he is divine".
Ah, much better. Yes they cannot choose to believe. They can place their faith, but cannot believe. I think we are talking about two separate instances.
Hopefully, I don't sound rude. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, and forgive me if I have.
"Well, rare case indeed. Unfortunate of course, but according to the Pope you may still be able to go to Heaven. I always wondered if the Vatican held secret scriptures and used it only for thier traditional means."
I really don't think my case is anywhere near as rare as you might think. There are plenty of agnostics and atheists (though I will not claim the majority by any means) who wish they could be theists, for a variety of reasons.
"Ah, much better. Yes they cannot choose to believe. They can place their faith, but cannot believe. I think we are talking about two separate instances."
There is no point in faith without belief, otherwise you are putting your faith in nothing. You have faith that your belief in the divinity of Christ is well placed, you have faith that your belief in God reflects the reality of our existence. I think of them as the same.
"Hopefully, I don't sound rude. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, and forgive me if I have."
I have seen quite a few of your posts and I haven't seen a single instance where I have thought you came across as rude or mean, so no forgiveness needed!
I really don't think my case is anywhere near as rare as you might think. There are plenty of agnostics and atheists (though I will not claim the majority by any means) who wish they could be theists, for a variety of reasons.
Is that so? Well then. That changes a few thoughts I had.
There is no point in faith without belief, otherwise you are putting your faith in nothing. You have faith that your belief in the divinity of Christ is well placed, you have faith that your belief in God reflects the reality of our existence. I think of them as the same.
Sounds true.
I have seen quite a few of your posts and I haven't seen a single instance where I have thought you came across as rude or mean, so no forgiveness needed!
Good, I need to make sure I don't offend anyone or be rude to anyone.
Okay maybe I'd go with "most". Gideons list the following countries in which they are prohibited from distributing Bibles:
"Afghanistan, Algeria, China (People's Republic), Comoros, Djibouti, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Yemen"
The population of China alone is 1.4 billion. All these people will go to hell because they didn't have access to information on Christ? You don't see something wrong with that view on our "benevolent" creator?
The population of China alone is 1.4 billion. All these people will go to hell because they didn't have access to information on Christ? You don't see something wrong with that view on our "benevolent" creator?
I'm sorry. That is not the case. I do like you. I just want you to question your beliefs. You are stating that your beliefs are fact but you really haven't gone through the rigor of verifying your beliefs. I mean, it's OK to have faith, but don't confuse faith with facts.
My beliefs are beliefs. They come out my mouth as fact. However, somethings in the Bible are made clear. I have evaluated my beliefs. It sounds as if I am not welcomed. So, I probably just won't participate in this specific debate if that lightens the mood.
You talking about driving to Hell, which isn't possible so I'm sure I can say that as fact. That is all.
How do you know you can't drive to hell? Do you have to take a shuttle instead? Maybe a ferry? Or do you have to fly there? And if you have to fly there, do you get bat wings? Or do you have to take a plane or helicopter? And how long is the trip? If it's a long trip, do they give you snack half way there? Is there an in flight movie? Do the people going to hell have to sit in coach and those going to heaven get to sit in first class? Where does it say that you can't drive to hell?
So when people say that Christ died for all our sins whattthey are really saying is that Christ died so that the ones that God chooses to live in the Christian world can go to heaven?
Christianity is an incredibly ugly religion. Without it we can appreciate the beauty of humanity. What amazing creature we are. With Christianity we are all pieces of so garbage that, by default, deserve to burn for all eternity. And why? Because we are human. What a disgusting think to think about people that don't share your belief.
So when people say that Christ died for all our sins whattthey are really saying is that Christ died so that the ones that God chooses to live in the Christian world can go to heaven?
Sort of. Some Christians believe God already chose the people that will make it to Heaven. Some believe that man himself must make the effort to go to Heaven.
Christianity is an incredibly ugly religion.
I didn't expect an insults to be thrown around, but your opinion is still welcomed. I think Christianity is beautiful.
Without it we can appreciate the beauty of humanity.
Without Christianity horrid acts such as murder, rape, or abuse still exist. Humans, in our current state, aren't what I would call beautiful.
With Christianity we are all pieces of so garbage that, by default, deserve to burn for all eternity.
Depends on your belief. From birth God calls you his child. So I think garbage is far-fetched. If what the Pope said was true humans with good morality will also make it to Heaven.
And why? Because we are human. What a disgusting think to think about people that don't share your belief.
I don't think Christians are supposed to view others as garbage. To us you all are our brothers and sisters.
. Some believe that man himself must make the effort to go to Heaven.
I don't see that as a possibility for many people in the world.
I didn't expect an insults to be thrown around, but your opinion is still welcomed. I think Christianity is beautiful.
Can you understand how ugly it is to a none believer though? We have our own morals and the creature you worship is a very evil character. He is sending people to hell for not worshiping him even though he has given them no opportunity to know him.
Without Christianity horrid acts such as murder, rape, or abuse still exist. Humans, in our current state, aren't what I would call beautiful.
It is unfortunate that most of the beautiful things in human beings (love, charity, intelligence etc) you attribute to a supernatural being. Imagine how wonderful it must be for atheists. We look around us and attribute the beauty in our world to human beings. We can have a relationship with the 'creator' because it is us. You have to be content chatting to something that has no interest in chatting back.
I don't think Christians are supposed to view others as garbage. To us you all are our brothers and sisters.
I think if you truly saw everyone who was going to burn in hell as your brothers you would spend your whole life crying. This is not the case.
I am really at a loss for words if you think someone deserves to burn in hell fire for an eternity just for not believing in your God. That's really intolerant and this is coming from me; a self-confessed fascist.
I am really at a loss for words if you think someone deserves to burn in hell fire for an eternity just for not believing in your God. That's really intolerant and this is coming from me; a self-confessed fascist.
Why is it intolerant? In fact I tolerate anyone's views. These aren't my rules nor did I make them up. Your moral code is no better than mine or his or hers or anyone's. If you want to berate me for my beliefs have at it, but someone else could say the same thing towards you and the same thing will be implied. Isn't it your belief that morality is subjective? If so then what makes your view better than mine? If not what makes your moral belief the objective one?
Having a different belief is not a crime worthy of eternal punishment.
Says who?
Do you have any rational basis for this? Why is it okay for them to be tortured for all eternity but not okay for them to be torture in the short term when they are alive? Or do you just agree with torture of non-Christians generally?
Do you have any rational basis for this? Why is it okay for them to be tortured for all eternity but not okay for them to be torture in the short term when they are alive? Or do you just agree with torture of non-Christians generally?
I only agree with God's plan. Sorry if you are disgusted by it, but we all belong to God. God can do as he wishes.
I'm asking you why is it immoral to torture those that God deemed worthy of torture for eternity...? When I read the Bible I would imagine that Christians must be terrible people. However, this is not my experience of Christians. Do they not consider the evil side of what God wants?
1) Punished Adam and Eve for wrongdoing committed prior to their being able to conceptualize right and wrong after being deceived by a serpent that he put there to deceive them.
2) Looked more favorably on one of Adam and Eve's children than the other due to the quality of their offerings, scoffing at vegetables and cheering for fatty meat, never giving a moments consideration to the massive bias he was engendering. And when this blatantly unfair treatment predictably resulted in tension between the brothers, of course it was entirely Cain's fault- nevermind the fact that he was being raised by parents who never knew what morals were until adulthood, nevermind how to teach them to children.
3) Requires blood to pay for sin, and refuses to budge from that position, despite ostensibly having conceptualized and created the entire system for redeeming sin. When this proves non-scalable, he changes the rules, but only just enough to let one dude pay for everyones sins. Except it's not everyone's sin, it's only those who profess belief despite his other actions. This alone should be enough. There was nothing obstructing god from changing the system, he just didn't feel like it, and opted to let a prophet who may or may not have been his offspring die a torturous death instead.
4) Requires belief for the aforementioned salvation, despite having gone out of his way to design the earth in such a way as to suggest it was much older than it really is, and to suggest natural processes created life rather than himself. Case in point: Burying various fake skeletons in different layers of rock arranged such that they mirror the way layers of sediment form when observed by man.
5) Divinely inspires numerous works to help guide people to the faith, but intentionally introduces massive values dissonance, inconsistencies, and conflicts to further dissuade individuals from believing.
It all makes sense if we assume the christian god to be a #trollgod.
planted fake dinosaur skeletons in carefully-engineered layers of soil to suggest
So actually what the communist dictatorship in China do to this citizens is okay then? Torture of non-christians is completely acceptable? Just so I'm absolutely clear.
There is no evil in God.
Okay okay. But you understand that if the devil did the same thing then it would be evil? If he randomly chose people to spend eternity in hell. Can you understand that to an atheist your God is an evil character? We don't have the circular excuse of "evil things are not evil when God does it because evil things God does not do".
So actually what the communist dictatorship in China do to this citizens is okay then? Torture of non-christians is completely acceptable? Just so I'm absolutely clear.
What a country does to it's people isn't my business. If morality is truly subjective then what they are doing is only wrong to you. If morality is subjective can you tell me why what China does to it's citizens is wrong?
Okay okay. But you understand that if the devil did the same thing then it would be evil?
No, it wouldn't.
If he randomly chose people to spend eternity in hell. Can you understand that to an atheist your God is an evil character?
Yes. Do you understand that for us anything separate for faith is evil?
We don't have the circular excuse of "evil things are not evil when God does it because evil things God does not do".
That's fine. You don't have to, but it's true, Excuse or not or whether you accept it or not. We have a basis for our morality. Maybe it would be wise to find a reason as to what makes God evil and what makes your judgment objective.
What a country does to it's people isn't my business.
Well I asked for your opinion on it. Are you saying you can't tell me whether it is moral or immoral because the Bible does speak on it?
If morality is truly subjective then what they are doing is only wrong to you. If morality is subjective can you tell me why what China does to it's citizens is wrong?
We have a basis for our morality. Maybe it would be wise to find a reason as to what makes God evil and what makes your judgment objective.
You seem to misunderstand what subjective means. It does not mean non-existent. By examining the subject views of societies (billions of people) we discover what morality is.
One thing that permeates all society is that suffering is bad unless someone deserves it. Societies differ in their opinion on what someone needs to do to deserve varying degrees of pain. In all cases though, it is wrong to cause pain to the innocent. This probably derives from our feelings of empathy and the dislike for pain normally present in every human being. Therefore, a creature choosing random people to be born into an eternity in hell is universally wrong.
Of course you can call evil good if you want. Language is very versatile. Bare in mind though, you might as well say God is flim-fom-flupity-flap. This is just as devoid of meaning as when you describe him as good or compassionate or loving. All our experience, all our understanding of those words are completely incompatible with the notion of a creature that deals out the worst punishment imaginable to the most innocent (not going to accept: "but their parents were bad :(" seriously, would that argument make sense to you in any other context?) people. Christians need to find new adjectives. Flim-fom-flupity-flap is a good choice. You can make up whatever meaning you want then without having to rely on circular reasoning (A good God is good, a loving God is loving etc etc).
Well I asked for your opinion on it. Are you saying you can't tell me whether it is moral or immoral because the Bible does speak on it?
I have no opinion on that matter. What another country does to it's people isn't my business.
You seem to misunderstand what subjective means. It does not mean non-existent. By examining the subject views of societies (billions of people) we discover what morality is.
How did you get the interpretation of non-existant? I never even mentioned anything about non existence. Subjective views are subjective views. Some more popular than others. So what qualifies a view as objective?
One thing that permeates all society is that suffering is bad unless someone deserves it. Societies differ in their opinion on what someone needs to do to deserve varying degrees of pain. In all cases though, it is wrong to cause pain to the innocent. This probably derives from our feelings of empathy and the dislike for pain normally present in every human being. Therefore, a creature choosing random people to be born into an eternity in hell is universally wrong.
Why is societies basis the objective basis?
Of course you can call evil good if you want. Language is very versatile. Bare in mind though, you might as well say God is flim-fom-flupity-flap.
No.
This is just as devoid of meaning as when you describe him as good or compassionate or loving. All our experience, all our understanding of those words are completely incompatible with the notion of a creature that deals out the worst punishment imaginable to the most innocent (not going to accept: "but their parents were bad :(" seriously, would that argument make sense to you in any other context?) people. Christians need to find new adjectives. Flim-fom-flupity-flap is a good choice. You can make up whatever meaning you want then without having to rely on circular reasoning (A good God is good, a loving God is loving etc etc).
You can call God what you want, but your view still is of little importance in relativity to all scales of morality. You haven't proven an objective moral or what prompts an objective basis or why multiple subjective views just become objective when other views that contrast it exist.
Well, if we just briefly consider some of what I was taught,( my indoctrination) as a child of four at Sunday School by Father Seamus O'Paedophile. You must love God, he loves you. But if you don't love him you'll burn in hell and suffer agonizing pain for eternity. Do you love god? You're dead right I love god, I love him, I love him. You must repent for your sins or you'll burn in hell for ever and ever. What sins were these Father? The sins mankind has been committing for 1000s of years. But please father I'm only four. Shut up boy. Are you going to repent or burn endlessly in hell? I repent, I repent. You must extol god every day in deed and in word or you'll roast eternally in hell and listen to the deafening agonized screams of all the other sinners. Are you going to extol the Lord every day ? I praise him, I praise, him. Different people have various names for this loving and caring religion, but I call it blackmail. Maybe we're actually in hell now. How do we know that the parents from alien planets don't say to their children, if you don't behave you'll go to Earth and have to listen to politicians telling lies for ever and ever? They of course would reply, I'll behave, I'll behave.
Majority of the people will go to hell. The only people who will go to Heaven are the people who truly seek out Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, and actually live a life that God wants them to live.
Well you could be a really nice person but not believe in Jesus or the Abrahamic God and you could be a really horrible person who believes in Jesus as their savior so that it is hardly a fair way of judging who should and shouldn't go to Hell.
But doesn't the bible essentially say that it does not matter if you are "worthy" or not if you don't believe in (have faith in) the divinity of Christ?
God determines who is worthy through judging them during the end of days. I can peer into the hearts of men. If you name isn't in the book of life you will be sent to Hell.
I actually do. I actually believe that God will test the hearts of those who didn't choose God on Earth in a purgatorial type thing. The Pope says nice people will go to Heaven and I believe that. There are some who believe Hell isn't even possible to reach for humans. So in the end times you suffer from the Earthly calamities and you just go to Heaven. So many beliefs. My mom was Catholic (still is) and my dad was Muslim (still is). So I understand three different variations of faith.
With the way today's society is going, we are all, or at least most of us, going to he'll. We are commuting crimes, letting electronics rule over us(not that I care) and just doing bad things in general. SEE YALL IN HE'LL.
Wait a minute... if there is a highway to he'll, and a stairway to heaven, then if I'm heading to he'll, I'll take a U turn and go to the stairway to heaven. I'm smart. But first I have to make sure that there's not any bad drivers on that highway.... let's hope and pray to... wait.. I think it would be god...