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One explanation for why people voted for BrExit and why people will vote for Trump.
On both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, large numbers of people feel that the fundamental contracts of capitalism and democracy have been broken. In a capitalist economy, citizens tolerate rich people if they share in the wealth, and in a democracy, they give their consent to be governed if those governing do so in their interest. The Brexit vote was an opportunity for people to tell elites that both promises have been broken. The most effective line of the Leave campaign was “take back control.” It is also Donald Trump’s line.
The day after the referendum, “voter stupidity” seemed to be the default explanation traded among elites. There certainly was a lot of misinformation spread during the campaign. But in my own conversations, and listening to voters explain their support for Leave in the media, I heard something different: They are human. And humans don’t always act in ways that are straightforwardly self-interested. In fact, numerous voters said they knew there would be a cost to Brexit—job losses, higher prices, anger from Britain’s allies—but they were willing to pay that price to have their voices heard, to regain a sense of control, and to punish the elites who, they felt, had betrayed them.
People will sacrifice their own self-interest and harm themselves, even severely, to enforce norms of reciprocity.
The reason the Remain camp lost was that they didn’t understand the game they were playing. They thought they were playing a rational game, appealing to people’s pocketbooks and sense of security. They fought their campaign with facts and figures and by highlighting the risks of Brexit. But the voters were playing the Ultimatum Game. Leave understood this and fought with promises to “take back control.” Like the Remain campaign, Hillary Clinton is also playing the rational game, appealing to voters’ economic and security self-interest. Donald Trump is the weapon of the altruistic punishers. Clinton needs to recognize that voters are not playing the same game she is. She needs to convince voters that she hears them and will restore the fundamental promises of capitalism and democracy. If she doesn’t, November 8 might be as shocking a day as June 23.
I think you're onto something. But I think there is one more component to it. BAD INFORMATION. Bad information rules the day now. People distrust mainstream news sources, as well as mainstream authority figures, and instead embrace radicals and blogs and Facebook memes and radical talking heads. Which makes it easy for large swaths of population to be lead down a destructive path. Gone are the days a university professor or government source could calm and dispel a thread of bad information going around. And tied in with this is a belief now by many people that they are WELL INFORMED because of all the stuff they've been reading on Facebook and the web.
If we have another world war, we may be able to kill enough stupid people and stay on the straight and narrow instead of being lead down the destructive path. ;)
Hillary would not be the Democrat nominee unless she followed the dictates of this new extremist Democrat party of political correctness.
She is never going back to the message of capitalism and democracy.
The Democerat party has become the closet socialist party as we saw with Obama, Bernie Sanders and now Hillary. The Party realizes after decades of conditioning, have accomplished their goal of creating a huge welfare voting block of people living off Government.
I would love to see the numbers today of Americans using Medicaid and other social programs.
It is simply traitorous to buy votes at the expense of our nation's well being. As a nation rewards laziness and punishes hard work and responsibility with high taxes and forced healthcare mandates, what do you think the outcome will be?
Capitalism is the common sense ratoinal system whereby ANYONE who works hard and live's responsibly can succede in life. This system rewards hard work and does not tax you to death to buy the votes of others.
You are listening to the general feelings constantly pushed by the Liberal media tied to the Left.
The Rich pay most of our taxes and are leaving this nation to get away from the highest corporate tax in the world as well as all the regulations.
Yes, there will always be some rich people who abuse the system as there will always be poor people who scam the system. This does not mean you throw out capitalism.
The constant drum beat by the Left of how everything is the Rich's fault is pure politics and the low end voters soak it up because everyone wants something for free. This narrative gives Democrats the votes they will lie for.
Don't get me wrong. I am not a liberal. But the economy hasn't been that great since the crash of 2008. I am not advocating handouts. I want government to create incentives for corporations to bulster the middle class. If they can pay their CEOs exorbitant wages, then they can give the people who actually get the work done a decent pay raise.
The actions of the bankers that lead to the crash of 2008 set the stage for our current economic situation. There is a problem when the people coming out of college have nothing but debt to show for it. People feel betrayed. And sometimes, when people feel betrayed, they do something spitful even if it is to their own detriment.
Lets take some of these high wages and put them in perspective. Let's say a CEO of a world wide corporation makes 20 million per year.
Lets say he has 20 thousand employees.
If we cut his salary in half to 10 million per year and divided it up to the employess, do you know what their pay increase per year would be?
$500 dollars! That's nothing!
Where I worked the CEO made approx. $700,000 per year and the employees still complained. There were approx. 1000 emplyees and if we cut his salary in half, the employess would have received a pay increase of $350 per year.
A company's life blood is the forsight of the CEO who can keep the company in business by knowing what the future holds for their business and where they need to grow and change to stay in business. These millions of dollar salaries are there for one reason. To attract the best CEO's who will keep them in business.
With all the competition from overseas we never had before, it is very hard these days to justify wage increases. It's not so much the CEO's salary keeping the worker's salaries down.
I agree with you that salaries have gotten out of hand in some cases, not all. How could we reduce the outrageous salaries? I say the power of the purse would change it but the consumer must be willing to take a stand by telling those corporations who pay too much to their CEO's, that we will not buy their product if they continue doing so. There could be a list of the worst offenders. Money talks!
One thing for sure is we need no corrupt politicians bought and paid for by big money getting involved with the salaries of private businesses.
Money talks to corporations and votes talk to politicians. If we vote for Hillary, what message are we sendng to these corrupt liars? We are saying that the American people are a bunch of idiot lap dogs who will elect proven corruption. The people MUST take a stand if anything will ever change.
I have no probem with millionaires. Without businessmen, we would have no jobs, no innovation, no improved quality of life, etc., etc.
It takes the reward of wealth to spur the risk and long hours it takes to start a business.
I don't hold Trump's wealth against him. He has created many jobs over his career. I will grant you he's an egotist. He's not at all a polished politician knowing what not to say, but this does not exclude him from knowing how to change the direction of this nation.
We need someone with a thick skin that just might do what's best for this nation, not what's best to get elected or cater to certain voting blocks.
Trump is not yet proven corrupt. Until then, he is better than the known corruption of Hillary.
Have you ever noticed how certain professions attract certain types of people? Like, you wouldn't expect a decent human being to be running a drug cartel. Nor would you expect a narcissist to be helping out at the soup line. So it is with politics. I only expect self serving ass holes to crave a career in politics. But that's just me. I'm a cynic so..., I'm already prejudiced against them. ;)
We need to send a united message to the 1% that we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore. A vote for Hillary does not benefit the young people. She will just keep business as usual, protect the 1% and nothing will change.
More of the Republican "I know what we shouldn't do" routine. It is so much fun hearing "let's not do this" and "we shouldn't do that". How should we accomplish "We need to send a united message to the 1% that we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore."?
I have a better idea than trying to trick people who weren't going to vote Trump into not voting for Hillary, how about we limit the voting age to 55. Those people don't have to live with the consequences as long as people who are 18. We keep the current age restrictions on candidates, so younger people have to vote for older people to run the country. It is a much better balance.
Are you kidding me? Have the young people vote for benefits paid for by old people? It's supposed to work the other way around. Old people vote for benefits paid for by young people. ;)
It is supposed to "work" that way. But you guys broke the system. Between limiting the voting age and writing in Bernie, only my idea even has a shot at working. I really only have to propose ideas better than yours. Got any other ideas?
All I have to do is convince you that immigrants over 55 are voting. You guys will ban anything related to immigrants, and can be convinced of anything.
Hey, you can't convince me. Not only that but I don't vote. So stop wasting your time. You have a boat load of people to convince so focus on them. And, like I said...., good luck with that. ;)
Wait a second. You can't change the wording to make me look wrong. I didn't realize that you switched that before. I didn't use the word "and", I used the word "or". Why do you feel the need to cheat?
The Progressive wrote -"I didn't write that." And now the Progressive says this -"No, I don't deny that. That is what I said. And, since this says "or" the people who vote for Brexit are different than those who vote for Trump."
It is no wonder you Progressives are looked at as IDIOTS by those you cast your vote for!
They don't have to since it is an "or". An old fucker can vote for Brexit or vote for Trump depending on where they are. Why do you think old fuckers only live in Britain.
"Do i continually have to make you look stupid ? You wrote the words not me -"The people who voted for Brexit or who will vote for Trump " Brits in Britain will vote for Trump ?
I don't care what people think about Brexit, state your opinion as you may, but if you are going to quote someone changing their words to suit yourself is pretty slimy and dishonest.
Do i continually have to make you look stupid ? You wrote the words not me -"The people who voted for Brexit or who will vote for Trump " What does Brexit have to do with a Trump vote ?
You might notice the name and picture of the person you are replying to is different, as I have said no such words.
Though I find your changing of Cartman's quote to be pretty pathetic. You even changed it back, so there is no possibility that you didn't notice it. Clearly you did, and just didn't care. It would benefit you to show more integrity in future posts.
The red herring is in every post in this thread, where you avoid discussing that sleazy slimy business you did with your quotations. Manipulating a quotation to make it appear as if someone said something that they did not, to suit your own needs, demonstrates a lack of integrity. That's what I commented on. That's why I am in this thread/debate. That's what you are avoiding talking about. The longer you play this game the more spineless you make yourself out to be.
Wrong, that sounds more like an article by some journalist trying to fill a column in their employer's newspaper. The overwhelming, not the exclusive, but the overwhelming reason why the people of the United Kingdom took the enormous risk of being left outside the biggest single market in the world and voted for so called Brexit was ''uncontrolled'' immigration. With a population of 65million the influx of over 500,000 immigrants every year has pushed the public services of the United Kingdom beyond breaking point. Teachers having to teach two to five different nationalities in one class, the national health service is just short of collapse with ''economic immigrants'' and health service tourists along with the immigrant demand for free housing and unemployment benefits has turned an unbearable situation into a full blown crisis. As Nigel Farage told the members of the European Parliament;- the E.U, is a political institution in denial. The Euro currency is doomed to fail and the runaway budget and membership requirements of Brussels is bankrupting some nations such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and even France going against all the original E.U, fiscal rules and running a massive budget deficit. The loss of sovereignty and control of one's own borders was another humiliation which the majority of the U.K's population decided was not worth the apparent benefits of being a member of this backward sliding organization. The Brussels Mafiosa, ( the E.U.Parliament ) have never made their books available for audit and are unashamedly unable/unwilling to explain numerous unaccountable sums of money which literally add up to many billions of Euros.
