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GuitarGuy's Waterfall RSS

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1 point

Eh, no need to get all exclamation point about it. You seem a lot like Helix, though.

1 point

It is pretty useless, I agree... So, why do you do it?

1 point

By the way, I noticed that you logged into all of your other accounts and went on an up-vote frenzy on the 'yes' side.

1 point

You have done plenty of cherry picking :D

How so?

So you argument is now what? "I have found 4 webs that fits to my view?" If I post 10 articles about Genesis is being literal, will I win?.

I listed links because you made the ridiculous comment that ALL sources say that it is supposed to be interpreted literally.

Go ahead and find me ten links from non-creationists saying that the Bible should be interpreted literally.

Your previous "argument" that "different people, did wit different religions in different times something different..." looked that you in least try...

Can you retype that in English, please?

GuitarGuy(6096) Clarified
1 point

Jordano Bruno

Giordano

Both Bruno and Galileo were working with Nicolaus Copernicus' theory. Nothing happened to him, though. It's kind of strange that they punished the students and not the teacher.

1 point

You have lost many argument ago.

Why? Because you say so?

You are not even arguing.

Well, I obviously am. What do you call this? You just can't prove anything, nor do you understand the topic, so you decided to go ahead and just declare that you won. That's fantastic.

All sources said that six days means six days.

ALL? That is probably the most ridiculous thing you have said so far... And you've said a lot of ridiculous things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllegoricalinterpretationsofGenesis

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/ Issues/Science/Creationism andEvolution/BibleasAllegory.shtml

http://www.keeneonline.com/other/allegory.htm

http://www.biblemeanings.info/Parables/King/Allegories of_Genesis.htm

http://biologos.org/questions/early-interpretations-of-genesis

"In traditional jewish theology and in the early Christian church, it was not taught that the the creation story was an account of seven literal days. In fact, at that time most Christian and Jewish teachers felt that to entertain such a question was to miss the point of the Genesis account entirely."

"It was the common thought in the early church years that the story of creation had been separated into multiple days and a compounding sequence because there was a need for order to aid in its understanding. The proper interpretation of the creation story revolved around what was taught and symbolized, rather than battling between literal and allegorical canaille."

"It was't until the 1500s when the Protestant Reformation took place, that the emphasis for scripture interpretations became focused upon literacy. It was at this time that Martin Luther expounded the idea of earth being created in six literal days and God resting on a literal seventh"

http://www.examiner.com/article/7-literal-days-vs-allegorical-interpretation

Of course, you'll probably say that those people are full of shit, and are trying to make Genesis seem less stupid, in which case I would point out how you probably didn't read the quotes I listed. Show me an article that says Genesis must be interpreted literally from someone other than a Young-Earth creationist.

Just because you don't like it will not change.

What? Your opinion? Well, that sucks... But if you want to continue being stubborn and defending something you know nothing about, be my guest. If you are so confident that you are right, then you should be able to prove to me that it should be interpreted literally.

1 point

Outside of Genesis 1, yom plus a number (used 410 times) always indicates an ordinary day, i.e., a 24-hour period.

Do you realize how incredibly useless that argument is? People who interpret the Bible literally would consider all of the other passages to be literal, as well. You get all of your arguments from Young-Earth creationists, as if they are good authority on the subject. Give me a break! Maybe you should take a look at the other sides arguments, before you make up your mind.

The words “evening” and “morning” together (38 times) always indicate an ordinary day.

Show me those verses.

Yom + “evening” or “morning” (23 times) always indicates an ordinary day.

An argument they pulled from their ass. How do they know that the verses they are comparing them to are not allegorical, as well?

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Genesis-days.html#ixzz2wbzPotDD

You shouldn't use that site as a source. I always suggest that people don't, because it is biased and flawed.

If you can't come up with your own arguments, with your own opinions, with your own "knowledge," then you should just quit and go make some more accounts (You are Helix, right?).

1 point

This is conclusive proof that have never attended science classes in your junior high.

Dude, where is the sun located at noon? Straight overhead, right? How about at 1:00? Our clocks are designed relative to the sun.

The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom.

You just copied and pasted that from the internet. You didn't even quote it, as if it is your own words. You don't even understand what you are defending. You may measure time differently, but most people, especially ancient Jews, don't... So, your argument is useless.

Why do you think that the International Earth Rotation and Reference Systems Service is responsible for maintaining global time standards?

Which is a proof that Genesis was made up by primitives who did not know how stuff works.

They may not have known how the universe worked, but that doesn't discard the argument that Genesis chapter one is allegorical. You think that because some creationist said that Yom + a number + evening/day is referring to a literal 24 hour period, then it must be. Where do you think they got that idea from? They pulled it out of their ass. There is no Hebrew text, religious or not, that says that yom + a number + evening/day must be interpreted literally. The people who actually speak the language say that it isn't supposed to be interpreted literally... Do you speak Hebrew? Does Ken Ham speak Hebrew? No... So, your argument is based on other ignorant arguments.

1 point

Six days in for [YOM] [number] [DAY TIME] means just and only 24h day. End of story. Your opinion does not matter.,

You got that argument from creationist websites. Of course they are going to interpret it literally. The days can still be figurative, though... That is how an allegory works. Do I really need to explain to you what an allegory is?

Cut out of context

Oh, yeah? What did those verses really mean, then?

How do you know they were making it up?8

How do I know that they were fables? Because it is obvious. You refuse to do any research outside of biased creationist websites.

For us is Genesis complete bullcrap. However for those primitives who made up that story, six days looked realistic which is why they have used 624h day.

Then why didn't they consider them to be literal days?

There is literally nothing to be ignorant about. It is a simple story made up by primitives.

There you go... Ignorance.*

There is no reason to think that it is not literal, for them it looked real.

There are plenty of reasons. You could at least look up the shit yourself, since you choose to ignore what I have supplied.

There is no doubt that Genesis is meant to be literal. It is not random story it has exact order of creation, with timing and description how thins happen.

Alright, dude... Go ahead and keep thinking that.

You are the one who tries to twist words, cut stuff out of context...

I have cut nothing out of context. You just like to say that I did as if you've actually looked into it. You're just too stubborn to admit that you don't know shit.

GuitarGuy(6096) Clarified
1 point

I referred to the Torah since it was the one that contains the Genesis, the book where the moderator was referring to.

Yeah, I'm the moderator lol.

I believe that the Torah was not written by Moses alone

I agree. It might not have even been written by Moses at all. His infancy story is the same as the Mesopotamian king Sargon. I think the Jews picked up a lot of laws and legends during the Babylonian Exile.

He was attributed to the Torah because he was the Israelites` savior from Egypt which would probably explain his prominence in the chapters.

Well, the Bible made up a few characters, that's no secret. Job was one, and Paul said that the story of Abraham and his sons was an allegory, so those characters were most likely made up, as well. I'm sure Noah was made up, considering the resemblance to that story and the one in the Epic of Gilgamesh, another Babylonian fable. However, I don't think people are supposed to interpret most of the Bible literally, anyways.

1 point

Again bullshit, they are just trying to make the story look less retarded.

Well, there's really no use trying to convince you anymore, anyways. If I can't get you to understand the concept of time, then I definitely won't make any progress with you on the Bible.

They think that magical creation in six days is too silly, so let them think that "day" does not mean "day"... which failed.

Good grief, you're a stubborn fool. You don't know jack-shit about this topic, and I find it hard to believe that you even read what I posted. Prove to me that it was not supposed to be interpreted allegorically! The Bible even mentions how people were starting to believe the fables and genealogies (which occurred in Genesis, hence the name) that they created:

1 Timothy 1:4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

The Bible even predicts the time when people would start interpreting the allegorical texts literally: 2 Timothy 4:4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

So no let make-up something about the number six...

How do you know they were making it up? It is ancient commentary. Six days wasn't far-fetched to the ancients, they had no knowledge of a billion year old Earth, or dinosaurs, or evolution... Yet they were still saying that the creation story was allegorical.

It is pathetic as it even can be.

What? Your decision to remain ignorant of the topic? Yes, I agree.

1 point

measurement has nothing to do with rotation of Earth.

Time measurement does. If the sun did not exist, we would not have a 24 hour clock.

It is mechanical system or electronics.

What do you think the purpose of that system is? Come on, man! How do you expect me to think that you have any idea about religion if you don't even know how we measure time?

Earth slows and speeds down in quite random pattern. Atomic clocks that standardize the second, used decay of radioactive elements.

Which could not occur without the sun. However, our 24 hour clock is based off of the earth's rotations... And we're arguing about ancient civilizations, who without a doubt measured time according to the sun. There is a reason people can look at the sun and determine that when it is straight overhead, it is noon.

1 point

Time measurement is not dependent on amount of light around the clock.

It's dependent on the earth's rotations around the sun... How else do we measure time?

1 point

We are talking about genesis and there is no word in it that could indicate that Genesis suppose to be taken as a BS story.

I never said it was a BS story... Just that it was an allegory.

There is no way how it could be understand as "non true". It is very descriptive, creation step by step...

So is the story of Abraham, which is featured in Genesis, but like Galatians 4:24 says: Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Here is an article someone wrote regarding an allegorical interpretation of Genesis 1: http://www.spiritofthescripture.com/id596-an-esoteric-interpretation-of-genesis-chapter-1.html

1 point

You're basically saying, "I'm ignorant of religion, history and Eastern tradition... But that doesn't matter, because I am right no matter what!" Awesome... Anyways, you can take a look at these:

"In Jewish religious thought Genesis is not regarded as meant for a literal reading, and Jewish tradition has not usually read it so."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Science/CreationismandEvolution/BibleasAllegory.shtml?p=1

"When, therefore, Moses says, "God completed his works on the sixth day," we must understand that he is speaking not of a number of days, but that he takes six as a perfect number. Since it is the first number which is equal in its parts, in the half, and the third and sixth parts, and since it is produced by the multiplication of two unequal factors, two and three. And the numbers two and three exceed the incorporeality which exists in the unit; because the number two is an image of matter being divided into two parts and dissected like matter. And the number three is an image of a solid body, because a solid can be divided according to a threefold division."

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/ philo/book2.html

GuitarGuy(6096) Clarified
1 point

The Bible was written by Jews during their enslavement in Egypt therefore they still have some basis on what they write in their texts.

The Bible consists of both Old and New Testament. New testament was after Jesus. I think you are referring to the Torah, which was actually probably written during their enslavement in Babylon. Those five books are attributed to Moses, who led the Jews out of Egypt... So, if he really did write the Torah (which I doubt he did, since most scholars agree that the writings within it span six centuries), then he most likely wrote it after they left Egypt. How else would you explain all the events that occurred after they left Egypt being included in the Bible?

1 point

But Bible was taken as a literal encyclopaedia-like book for more than thousand years, we call it now the Dark Age.

And much of the Dark Ages weren't until about a thousand years after Jesus and about two thousand years after Old Testament. The further back you go, the more people you find who interpreted it allegorically. Plus, there were many famous Jewish and Christian scholars of the Middle Ages who said that much of the Bible, especially Genesis, was to be interpreted allegorically.

A literal interpretation can be used as a tool for control... And that's what apparently happened. It worked especially well with the large pagan population that converted with Rome. When the most powerful empire converts, and adopts the wrong interpretation, that tends to spread.

People who think about them self as Christians, don't pray or go to the Church, they say so because they have Christmas tree in winter and around Easter they bake sheep shaped cake...

Uhhh... What?

1 point

So, you can't prove that it wasn't supposed to be interpreted allegorically? Well, thanks for clearing that up.

The Bible also says that wisdom and patience are females... But everyone knows that the personification of traits was just a literary tool. The deeper messages are what are supposed to be understood, not the literal interpretations. Early Christians and Jews taught the creation story as an allegory. A literal interpretation is more recent. Who do you think understands the stories better... People living during the time when those stories were being introduced, or the people who came thousands of years later?

1 point

Time measurement is not dependent on sun.

Our entire notion of time is based on the earth's rotations around the sun. How could there have been evening and day the first three days, if the sun and the moon were not created until the fourth day?

It says six days of creation, if time here would not matter it could have been a simple order. Without separating it to days.

It could be that it was put in terms that people of that time could understand. Like I said, the number seven was significant to the Babylonians, as well... And much of the Torah was written during the Babylonian Exile.

1 point

That doesn't mean it should be interpreted literally! When Jesus said he was a door, do you think he meant that he was an actual door?

I know your knowledge of what you just said extends only to an article you read by Ken Ham... Which is not very impressive. If you think it is right for people to continue misinterpreting the Bible, then keep defending them! We know that literal interpretations of Biblical texts has led to war and corruption... And we know that Christians had a different outlook when their religion first arose, but they were cut off and their messages reinterpreted once their texts got into the hands of corrupt leaders and idiots.

1 point

That phrase has been misinterpreted, as well.

Applying a literal interpretation to the Bible is like explaining Hamlet as if it were a newspaper comic.

1 point

It is based on the fact that average untrained person can hold six to seven information in their short term memory.

Genesis 5:4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.

Genesis 5:10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters.

Genesis 5:17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.

As you can see, there were numbers much larger than seven in Genesis.

Completely illiterate people can usually "count" to no more that to seven because they do not understand numbers properly, the way numbers mean to be understood.

The people who wrote the Bible were not illiterate, and obviously anyone who was reading the Bible was not illiterate... So, what's your point?

Seven was for them the ultimate number that they could somehow so so work with, highest number that still meant something. Saying 40 or 31 million meant nothing.

So, explain why they mention numbers up to the thousands.

1 point

So, God could measure days before the sun was created? Also, what reason would an eternal being have for measuring time? It's a man made measurement, and overall, an illusory thing.

1 point

Show me where the Bible says that the seven days should be interpreted literally.


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