I hear people talking about Westboro Baptist Church and such things and claim it applies to almost all Christians it seems like. I also hear about how there is a mass persecution of Atheists by Christians when I live at the edge of the bible belt or so and Atheists are never bullied where I live at the school I go to. I actually think one of the Atheists at my school is pretty popular and almost doesn't effect your reputation. In my honest opinion it is just hype.
You know what sounds overhyped? A war on Christmas. You know what sounds overhyped? Christians complaining about persecution. I think the hype on Christians is accurate.
You know what sounds overhyped? A war on Christmas. You know what sounds overhyped? Christians complaining about persecution. I think the hype on Christians is accurate.
By a War on Christmas to my knowledge just means that people don't say Christmas anymore a lot in some places. Is it overhyped? Yes.....
How are Christians complaining about persecution hype?
So the people who are being killed for being Christians in North Korea hype? Or do you mean Iraq?
There is not really persecution in America, sorry.
There was a 1st grader to my knowledge that says she wasn't allowed to talk about the bible at school.
Persecution is The act or practice of persecuting on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs that differ from those of the persecutor
Persecuting means subject (someone) to hostility and ill-treatment, esp. because of their race or political or religious beliefs.
Are we persecuting kids by saying they can't talk about their dick at school? He isn't allowed to talk about his Bible, big deal. That isn't hostility or ill-treatment, sorry. Those are just rules.
Are we persecuting kids by saying they can't talk about their dick at school? He isn't allowed to talk about his Bible, big deal. That isn't hostility or ill-treatment, sorry. Those are just rules.
That's still persecution and why shouldn't he be able to talk about his bible?
I hear people talking about Westboro Baptist Church and such things and claim it applies to almost all Christians it seems like. I also hear about how there is a mass persecution of Atheists by Christians when I live at the edge of the bible belt or so and Atheists are never bullied where I live at the school I go to. I actually think one of the Atheists at my school is pretty popular and almost doesn't effect your reputation. In my honest opinion it is just hype.
That is not why anti-theists think Christianity is harmful, it is not because they think all christians (or muslims, or jews, or buddhists, or etc) are the sames, it is because religion tries to claim to be the origin of morality, thus religion has a huge effect on morality because of such. Nobody ever tries to do immoral things to do immoral things, or because they are immoral things, people do however, do moral things, because they are moral things. You will never hear someone say "I did X, because it was the wrong thing to do" but you will hear people say "I did X, because it was the right thing to do". When one bases their morality on religion, they don't have to consider things like "what minimizes harm and maximizes well-being" in order to feel as though they are morally justified. However without religion, in order to feel right about what you are doing, you usually do need to use such considerations to justify yourself to being moral to yourself. The problem with religion (not just christianity) is when morality is based upon simply, what god approves of and dissaproves of, it can be used as kind of a free for all, or for whatever moral stance you want to take, because what god approves of or disapproves of can't be verified so, it is what has been taught to them via ancient texts, or they use that argument to hide their bigotry behind it. Of course you can use "what minimizes pain and maximizes well being" along with "what god approves of or disapproves of" but the second premise their doesn't at all help you morally, it was the former premise that lead you to a moral stance that leads to less harm. You have things like the crusades, preaching to other countries that condoms are wrong thus contributing the spreading of aids, fighting evolution in school, not allowing homosexuals to marry, etc. Harm of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) isn't overhyped, if anything underhyped because people are sensitive about their beliefs.
We find religion to be superstitious so when it effects morality across the globe... that's scary. Think of it this way, if majority of the world population believed that the way people should conduct themselves in society should be based upon bigfoot, or what bigfoot agrees or disagrees with... you'd find that disturbing wouldn't you?
Atheists are effected by it, I don't know of any atheists that got bullied in school for being an atheist, but we do get the bad end of the schtick around here in society.
We are one of the most distrusted minorities in America.
a few states prohibit atheists from holding public office, and the ones that do... well come on, you don't see many atheists in politics, and we all know that it would be a BIG deal if we ever had an atheist for a president, after having a christian or catholic president for the millionth time in a row.
The problem with religion (not just christianity) is when morality is based upon simply, what god approves of and dissaproves of, it can be used as kind of a free for all, or for whatever moral stance you want to take
So not believing in any God can be used for it? The USSR wasn't very moral for their State Atheism?
You have things like the crusades,
Funded by Kings along with the Pope. Also you could blame the USSR for the same thing. My point is saying your doing it in the name of something doesn't mean you are. It is a double-edged sword as it could also be used against the USSR State Atheism murders of Religious persons.
preaching to other countries that condoms are wrong
Only Catholics mostly
thus contributing the spreading of aids,
Possibly
fighting evolution in school,
I believe in Theistic Evolution but I don't see why believing in Young Earth Creationism hurts kids as I was a Young Earth Creationist for a long time.
not allowing homosexuals to marry,
In the United States it sometimes hurts to marry.
etc. Harm of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) isn't overhyped, if anything underhyped because people are sensitive about their beliefs.
We find religion to be superstitious so when it effects morality across the globe... that's scary. Think of it this way, if majority of the world population believed that the way people should conduct themselves in society should be based upon bigfoot, or what bigfoot agrees or disagrees with... you'd find that disturbing wouldn't you?
Even if God isn't real I don't see how it's harmful.
So not believing in any God can be used for it? The USSR wasn't very moral for their State Atheism?
The USSR enforces their views on people, because that is what gets them power, when the people agree with them on everything, when the people are forced to agree with the views of those in power it reinforces their power. Their is correlation between atheism and socialism/communism, but simply that, a correlation.
Funded by Kings along with the Pope. Also you could blame the USSR for the same thing. My point is saying your doing it in the name of something doesn't mean you are. It is a double-edged sword as it could also be used against the USSR State Atheism murders of Religious persons.
No, that is a good point, but if someone says they are doing it in the name of X, and they can't possibly be doing it for anything else, then I am going to take their word for it. Thing is, you can't use a lack of belief to justify anything, I can't say "I am going to do this because I don't believe in a god" but you can say "I am going to do this because I believe in a god that commands me to".
I believe in Theistic Evolution but I don't see why believing in Young Earth Creationism hurts kids as I was a Young Earth Creationist for a long time.
Well, it causes them to be ignorant of science, and stifles them in reality that way, it also stifles the scientific progress of society.
In the United States it sometimes hurts to marry.
What do you mean here?
Even if God isn't real I don't see how it's harmful.
Well I have pointed you to the harm (evidence) and how it is harmful (logic). You haven't refuted either.
Your point about people being sensitive?
People don't want to acknowledge the responsibility religion has for it's effects because they don't like the idea of acknowledging their religion having blood on it's hands. Not every christian is the same, not every muslim is the same, not every jew is the same, and they are not responsible for what results of their religion (unless they actually took part) but their religion IS responsible.
The USSR enforces their views on people, because that is what gets them power, when the people agree with them on everything, when the people are forced to agree with the views of those in power it reinforces their power. Their is correlation between atheism and socialism/communism, but simply that, a correlation.
My point is people don't need religion to control people.
No, that is a good point, but if someone says they are doing it in the name of X, and they can't possibly be doing it for anything else, then I am going to take their word for it. Thing is, you can't use a lack of belief to justify anything, I can't say "I am going to do this because I don't believe in a god" but you can say "I am going to do this because I believe in a god that commands me to".
Okay the USSR killed people in the name of Atheists so do you think it should count.
Well, it causes them to be ignorant of science, and stifles them in reality that way, it also stifles the scientific progress of society.
I am simply stating that most people it wouldn't significantly effect.
What do you mean here?
It's called the marriage penalty.
People don't want to acknowledge the responsibility religion has for it's effects because they don't like the idea of acknowledging their religion having blood on it's hands. Not every christian is the same, not every muslim is the same, not every jew is the same, and they are not responsible for what results of their religion (unless they actually took part) but their religion IS responsible.
My point is people don't need religion to control people.
I agree, but religion still has it's issues.
Okay the USSR killed people in the name of Atheists so do you think it should count.
No, because the countries atheism didn't cause those deaths, it was the countries political leaders... It is rather obvious. Why is it, when socialist/communist political countries happen to take place, harm is done in the name of atheism, but when you take that ideology out of the picture, it results in higher standards of living. If anything it should really only count for socialism/communism being combined with atheism.
I am simply stating that most people it wouldn't significantly effect.
It is still an issue though...
It's called the marriage penalty.
What does that have to do with same-sex marriage specifically?
I'm talking about Christianity.
I'm talking about all religions, including Christianity.
There are whack-jobs on both sides but the numbers are minimal... unfortunately, because they're fucking nuts, people are naturally going to pay more attention to them than all the boring normal people.
Millions have died because of it. It has suppressed the advancement of science, social progression and equality for centuries. The World would be a better place without it.
It still holds back social progress today and still expresses hatred but in other way than violence. In many countries today homosexuality is still illegal and receives a severe punishment because of Christianity.
Ok, I wasn't thinking about Africa. Don't they bring food though? Is the benefit of food outweighing the harm done by Christians? I think the part that is worse is that Christians don't promote condom use in the area affected by AIDS.
Christianity (and most religions in general) have separated society. This has a lot to do with how Christians misinterpret the messages within the Bible. They believe the stuff that was added in there for political reasons, and ignore a lot of the more loving and unifying messages.