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People on CD should have the right mindset about what is going on in America.
True.
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Wait..., what? No!
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People on CD should have the right mindset about what is going on in America Hello joe. We SHOULD.. But, we DON'T. Here's the problem.. In order for us to HAVE the right mindset, or even discuss what the RIGHT mindset IS, we'd have to AGREE on a certain set of facts. We DON'T.. Here's an example.. You've been here a while. You've read where the right wing takes credit for solving civil rights.. You know, they ended slavery, and they ended segregation.. Hell, you might even be one of 'em.. Today, if you look closely, you'll see that it's right wingers who OPPOSE BLM.. It's right wingers who OPPOSE change. It's right wingers who OPPOSE the demonstrations. In fact, in terms of civil rights, the right wing THINKS everything is hunky dory.. But, it's the SAME right wing "mindset" that OPPOSED civil rights in the '60's, that OPPOSES them today. The 60's right wingers OPPOSED segregation.. They OPPOSED letting black people eat at the same place did.. They OPPOSED letting them vote. In terms of civil rights, those right wingers THOUGHT everything was hunky dory.. And, those right wingers ain't NO different than the right wingers are today.. So, lemme know when you wanna get the RIGHT "mindset".. excon PS> You'll notice that I didn't mention party. I mentioned right wingers. Right wingerism knows no party. It doesn't change. Side: True.
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Hmmm..., well..., let's see if only you and I can agree on something... anything, really. If you see this as an argument and you are interested in winning, then I suggest you do not agree to anything down below. But if you are interested in bridging the gap between us, then either accept or add clarification to the stuff below. First, there are certain facts that are verifiable and are thus indisputable. For example: In every well defined group there is a bell curve and we should use this curve to focus/guide our discussion. The main purpose of the bell curve is to help us avoid hyperbole. Second, there needs to be an agreed upon set of definitions otherwise there won't be a well defined group and thus no bell curve to focus/guide our discussion. For example: If you lump Republicans, conservatives and racist white supremacist into one group, then the racist white supremacists are on the right tail end of the bell curve. Now if you want to refer to the racist white supremacist as right wingers, then you're right. They do not want change. However, the other members of the group do want change; they are only opposed to the looting, rioting and burning. Can we agree on that or would you first like to make some additions/modifications (maybe request clarification) or is the gap between us so wide the conversation can even get off the ground ;) Side: True.
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It's all about how to frame things. Life, an argument, etc. Using well defined words and the bell curve to help you organize your thoughts. Venn diagrams help too. So, for example, not all BLM protesters are looters and not all conservatives are racists. Next comes Intent and goals. My intent is to help clarify. My goals are to fix what I can. Those two, taken together, help me remain calm. Finally, that which I have no control over and cannot fix, I look for the silver lining. The silver lining is usually hilarious. That helps me remain calm as well. Basically, the less you care about, the happier you'll be ;) Side: True.
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Hmmm..., well..., let's see if only you and I can agree on something... anything, really If you see this as an argument and you are interested in winning, then I suggest you do not agree to anything down below Now if you want to refer to the racist white supremacist as right wingers, then you're right. They do not want change. However, the other members of the group do want change; they are only opposed to the looting, rioting and burning. Hello again, joe: It's a debate. I don't NEED to win but that IS the objective of debate, isn't it? I'd just as soon lose a debate as long as I learn something.. Mkay, I'll go first. I BELIEVE that not ALL right wingers are racists and white supremacists.. Do you BELIEVE that not ALL demonstrators are looters, rioters, communists, Marxists, and arsonists? It's a baby step, I know.. excon Side: True.
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Not all demonstrators are looters, rioters, communist, Marxists, and arsonist. Government policies created this mess. But I don't believe they intended for any of this to happen. It was just unintended consequences. The question is how to fix it and I don't have any answers. The link below suggests one possible solution but I don't know how it can be implemented if the economy is destroyed by COVID-19. The source of the solution may also be a problem because bipartisanship seems to be dead. Finally, I think that as long as they use the word "reparations" to frame the argument, they will face stiff opposition. But the biggest problem I see is that money alone won't fix the problem. They need to combine it with a good education and good jobs.
However, I've been wrong before ;)
Supporting Evidence:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/
Side: True.
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Government policies created this mess. But I don't believe they intended for any of this to happen. It was just unintended consequences. The question is how to fix it and I don't have any answers. There's a pretty easy answer brother. Vote for a different government. Side: True.
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LMAO. As if voting would have any appreciable affect whatsoever. I'm torn between whether to agree with you or not. Up until now I think that has certainly been true, and I myself have never voted because I have always agreed with your implication. However, I think now we are seeing a situation where people are going to have to participate in the charade just to stop us having another world war. Trump has to be kept out. Even if he is kept out I think the egregious ideas he has resurrected from 20th century Europe are too developed now for anybody to change the outcome of an eventual war (even if that war might be twenty years ahead in the future), but there's no chance if he gets in again. Trump and fascism represent the absolute worst aspects of human nature. It is an ideology rooted in the hopelessness and skepticism of Nietzsche, but the real problem is not Nietzsche. It is the reaction to the news that nature is cruel and self-interested with the belief that we should ourselves be cruel and self-interested. That's fascism, and it is what Trump has brought back to America over seventy years after it was defeated in Germany. Side: Wait..., what? No!
I'm torn between whether to agree with you or not. Up until now I think that has certainly been true, and I myself have never voted because I have always agreed with your implication. However, I think now we are seeing a situation where people are going to have to participate in the charade just to stop us having another world war. Trump has to be kept out. I find your position here repugnant. Voting is so passive and inconsequential an act that it cannot properly even be considered political action. It isn't just that one vote has no effect. It isn't just that the whole system is rigged to guarantee fascism, either. It's that the narrative of voting itself is a false flag operation; people get to feel nice about their participation trophy (those damnable "I voted" stickers) without having to recognize their complicity or do anything about it. It's a popular deference of personal responsibility to the 'higher authority' of elected (bought) officers. Trump did not bring us to this point. No single person can have done. We all did this. We are all complicit. And we've been here a long ass time besides; that it seems so salient to you now is suggestive of the privilege you've had to not see it sooner (i.e. for some of us, the threat level didn't change much under Trump). A new changing of the colors will not get us out of where we're at. It may make it easier to ignore where we are, as was the case with Obama for many liberals, but the change comes down to us. Which, to my mind, means the prospects are pretty shit. People do not want to be responsible for themselves and to one another, let alone to existence holistically. They never have been and they are not going to magically start now. That is the absolute worst aspect of human nature. It's what permits fascism in all of its myriad forms, and so much else besides. Skepticism did not give us Nazi Germany. Your take here is cheap, prejudiced, and ahistorical. Neither is antisocial misanthropy the same as fascism; fascism is borne out of deference to 'higher authority' and the abdication of personal responsibility which accompanies it... out of things like your trite little voting narrative, for instance. Side: True.
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I find your position here repugnant. Well, thankfully your bizarre emotional reactions are not my problem. Voting is so passive and inconsequential an act that it cannot properly even be considered political action. It is not inconsequential if it prevents another world war. It isn't just that one vote has no effect. It isn't just that the whole system is rigged to guarantee fascism, either. It's that the narrative of voting itself is a false flag operation; people get to feel nice about their participation trophy (those damnable "I voted" stickers) without having to recognize their complicity or do anything about it. You seem to have missed that I agree with most of that. Trump did not bring us to this point. What difference does that make? He's here now, so burying your head in the sand isn't going to help. We are all complicit. And we've been here a long ass time besides; that it seems so salient to you now is suggestive of the privilege you've had to not see it sooner You're babbling incoherently. I just told you I've never voted for the same reasons you're now trying to chastise me for not noticing. Side: True.
Well, thankfully your bizarre emotional reactions are not my problem. I never suggested that my sentiments were your problem. You took my judgement upon yourself all on your own; why else would you feel compelled to deride me if not to reassure yourself against my condemnation. It is not inconsequential if it prevents another world war. It won't. Your insistence that it could is partially what I'm chastising you for. You seem to have missed that I agree with most of that. So you claim, but you keep carrying on about voting preventing WW3 which rather proves otherwise. What difference does that make? He's here now, so burying your head in the sand isn't going to help. You were the one carrying on about Trump. The difference between us is not that I deny Trump is fascist (I don't), but that you think his fascism is exceptionally remarkable. You're babbling incoherently. I just told you I've never voted for the same reasons you're now trying to chastise me for not noticing. Accusing me of incoherence and demonstrating that my position is incoherent are quite different things; ad hominem suits you more than reasoned discourse, though, I can tell. I'm not trying to chastise you. I'm doing it. Your reasons for not voting are not my reasons, I guarantee. You've doubled down on your claim that voting has suddenly become politically urgent and magically effectual, solely because you believe Trump is exceptionally fascist. He's not. That you think he is remains a testament to the privilege you have to overlook the fascism of his predecessor and the electable alternatives. Praxis fail, comrade. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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You were the one carrying on about Trump. And you were the one who deflected to a completely irrelevant banality about Trump not getting us to this point. Of course he didn't get us to this point. He's only been on Earth for seventy years. Your position is that Germans shouldn't have voted against Hitler because the voting system is corrupt and Hitler didn't get Germany to that point. Well, I disagree. I think Germans should have voted against Hitler, and then maybe 70 million people would still be alive. I think not voting against Hitler was stupid. Have I written that in terms simple enough for you to understand? Side: True.
Simplicity is plainly all you're capable of, so I wouldn't worry on that score. One person voting against Hitler would not have prevented the holocaust. Numerous people keeping Hitler out also would not have substantively altered the social landscape either. Because, again, the bigotry and intolerance were already there. Because too few people (your Marx included) not only couldn't be arsed to oppose antisemitism but actively participated in it well before Hitler came to power. Change is not as easy as dropping your ballot for the least fascist fucker out there. It's a commitment to everyday practice, to resisting the mundane bigotry and facism of the people you meet day to day. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Simplicity is plainly all you're capable of You just accused me of insulting you and then insulted me in your first sentence. That wasn't very clever, was it? One person voting against Hitler would not have prevented the holocaust. Your straw man argumentation is literally infantile and pathetic. I didn't say only you should vote against Hitler. You've changed what I said and are attacking your own version: a rhetorical trick commonly used by -- ironically -- the Nazis. Here's a poem you might be interested in you ridiculously idiotic bitch. Strain yourself and see if you can find the relevance. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Side: True.
I never said accusations were bad; you're the one who can't come to terms with them. Don't dish out if you can't eat what you serve, parrot boy. It's not a strawman because the act of voting is always discreetly done by an individual. It is always one vote. Besides which, this whole exchange began when you told a brother to vote. Strawmaning is really more your speciality. That, or ad hominem; predictably comparing me to Nazis... what unoriginal disingenuity will you come up with next I wonder. Funny thing about that poem, it highlights the importance of speaking out. Not voting. It's almost like the idea of active and direct praxis isn't in the least bit novel, for all that it continues to elude you. Here's something to sit with though: When they come for the women you're among them, calling people bitches because you think sexist slurs make for good insults. When they come for the neuroatypical you're among them, calling people mentally ill because you think mentalist slurs make for good insults. When they come for the lower class you're among them, invoking your class credentials because you think they make you superior. Don't come at me over praxis, parrot boy. Not when you're deep throating boots this hard. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Funny thing about that poem, it highlights the importance of speaking out. Not voting. Oh, of course, because voting against Hitler obviously can't be regarded as speaking out against Hitler. Another fine point from you. Don't come at me over praxis, parrot boy. Please get help with your mental health problems. Side: True.
Not really. It's a private act. Talking about voting against Hitler would be a distinct act, and one which doesn't require actually voting either. Still not a very impactful one, of course. Certainly not enough to outweigh your overbearing mentalism, misogyny, and classism. Parrrrrrrrrot boy. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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You lack even a passing familiarity with action theory, then. I can't be arsed to explain introductory metaphysics to the likes of you. Better to be a rhetorician than to be desperately dependent upon misogynistic and mentalist slurs, you half-arsed Marxist hypocrite. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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You lack even a passing familiarity with action theory Ahahahahaha! You laughably stupid, imbecilic semi-wit. That was a bit random, wasn't it? If it were me I'd have gone with, "Well, CLEARLY you lack adequate familiarity with the proven average precipitation in the Congo". Shut up you fucking idiot. Stick to the point or shut your trap. Side: True.
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Not random in the least since we were discussing the constitution of an action. Completely random since you are trying to argue that voting against Hitler is different to speaking out against Hitler, and unfortunately (for you) speaking and voting are both actions. Side: True.
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Do you have a specific government in mind? Both the Democrats and the Republicans made mistakes that are only apparent in hindsight. Hindsight is 2020 ;) Side: True.
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Do you have a specific government in mind? If I told you that the Nazis were bad, would you need an example of an alternative government before you believed me? Both the Democrats and the Republicans made mistakes that are only apparent in hindsight. I studied fascism at school. I know what it is and how to spot it. Veering into fascism is not a mistake you can blame on lack of hindsight because last time it arose there was a war which killed 70 million people. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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So..., you want America to replace both the Democrats and the Republicans ;) I'd prefer it if Americans understood that this idea about Republicans and Democrats representing the full spectrum of political opinion is absolutely ridiculous. America is a dictatorship of the rich and that is what its political system reflects. Marxists have been discussing this for well over a century. How capitalism leads to a stagnation of political choice. Side: True.
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Marxism leads to no political choice Marxism is political choice. Without it your choice is confined to which person tells you what to do. Marxism is 6 people and two kids getting shot at the CHAZ, not to mention the tent rapes, while one "warlord" tells everyone what to do. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Marxism is a discreet political ideology explicitly opposed to other political ideologies. By its very constitution it precludes breadth of political choice, or if it somehow tolerates other ideologies then it will not be sustainable against them. Trading one master for another does not make you free, no matter how much you may prefer the taste of one boot to another. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Marxism is a discreet political ideology explicitly opposed to other political ideologies. Specifically opposed to capitalism. Or, at least, ideologies in which wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few people. Marxism arose as a result of Marx's class analysis and his critiques of capitalism. What people are very quick to forget is that, regardless of whether you agree with Marx's solution, the problems he identified with capitalism are very genuine. By its very constitution it precludes breadth of political choice But Marxism has no "constitution" and, even if it did, you haven't read it. I see this type of behaviour from Americans all the time. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but your brain thinks it needs to attack Marx in order to defend itself. It is such a great shame that you guys have been so dumbed down by revisionist history and political propaganda. You literally vote against your own best interests as workers and attack anybody who tries to explain reality to you. Side: Wait..., what? No!
Specifically opposed to capitalism. Or, at least, ideologies in which wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few people. Marxism arose as a result of Marx's class analysis and his critiques of capitalism. What people are very quick to forget is that, regardless of whether you agree with Marx's solution, the problems he identified with capitalism are very genuine. Marx was not merely critical of capitalism, nor even just of ideologies which concentrate wealth. Minimally, Marx was also expansively critical of contemporary German egoism and illegalism. Moreover, Marx went beyond critique to the point of advocating a particular ideology (what you call "Marx's solution"); this necessarily comes at the exclusion of all other political ideologies, given the nature of ideology. You are correct, though, that people too quickly dismiss his critique of capitalism (although it was not so original a critique as is often presumed). But Marxism has no "constitution" [...] To say that Marxism has no constitution is to assert that it has no substance, i.e. that it does not advance any position at all. You yourself have explicitly acknowledged that Marx did advance a position; you referred to this as "Marx's solution". A person need not have read Marx to conclude therefrom that Marxism advances a position, and that is entirely adequate for the purposes of my claim that Marxism precludes breadth of political choice. Because Marxism represents a political position, it cannot be held in practical or coherent concurrence with other political positions. Therefore, Marxism by its very constitution precludes breadth of political choice. This is not unique to Marxism, but it is nevertheless a fact about Marxism. [...] and, even if it did, you haven't read it. I see this type of behaviour from Americans all the time. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but your brain thinks it needs to attack Marx in order to defend itself. Marx had numerous works and Marxist philosophy has considerably more than that; to which are you referring by "it"? I have read the entirety of The Manifesto of the Communist Party, selections from The German Ideology, and various works by contemporary Marxists. I'm by no means a Marxist scholar, but I'm sufficiently well-read to make such basic observations as "Marxism is a political ideology" (ffs). Incidentally, my criticism of Marxist philosophy derives significantly from my familiarity with the works of their contemporaries; this is owing to my interest in late modern German philosophy, and of the Die Freien especially. My criticism has nothing to do with the happenstance of my geopolitical residence, nor is it a bizarre compulsion as you so disingenuously suggest. If either of us is prone to attack out of a reactionary sense of self-defense, it would appear to be you. It is such a great shame that you guys have been so dumbed down by revisionist history and political propaganda. You literally vote against your own best interests as workers and attack anybody who tries to explain reality to you. It is such a great shame that you leap to ad hominem and gross generalization. I literally do not vote. I literally have organized workers' resistances. I literally have not attacked you for advocating Marxism. Your condescension and disinterest in discussion are duly noted, though. Side: True.
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What people are very quick to forget is that, regardless of whether you agree with Marx's solution, the problems he identified with capitalism are very genuine. And the critiques of Communism and Socialism are very genuine. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/3f/73/a33f738415d71c37cdf5c489b001b4c0.jpg ° Side: True.
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Trading one master for another does not make you free So infuriating. The central theme of Marxist ideology is that there is no master. That's why Antifa doesn't have a leader. It's why the hacker group Anonymous (before they were compromised by the FBI) didn't have a leader either. You think Marxism is the literal opposite of what it is because of a combination of bad information, revisionist history, dictators who used Marxist ideology as the basis for military coups and seventy years of anti-Communist propaganda. Side: True.
So infuriating. The central theme of Marxist ideology is that there is no master. Hardly. The central theme of Marxist ideology is that the proletariat will overthrow the bourgeoisie, and the latter are the only masters with which this ideology is explicitly concerned (to such an extent that feminists and critical race theorists have roundly criticized Marxism for its narrow concern with economics). Marx did not even advance this prescriptively, but viewed it as an inevitable historical occurrence that would be born out of dialectical materialism (here we see Hegel's strong influence). That's why Antifa doesn't have a leader. It's why the hacker group Anonymous (before they were compromised by the FBI) didn't have a leader either. Neither Antifa nor Anonymous are ideologically Marxist. Regardless, being leaderless does not make you masterless. Ideological commitment is also a master. You have a very narrow conception of freedom, if it only extends to the material world outside of your self. You think Marxism is the literal opposite of what it is because of a combination of bad information, revisionist history, dictators who used Marxist ideology as the basis for military coups and seventy years of anti-Communist propaganda. What bad information and revisionist history have I invoked, exactly? I haven't made the least mention of dictators either, and I'm not like to do so. Your ready disposition to presume strawmen wherever you see a critique of Marxism has ensured that you haven't even the vaguest notion of my views on Marxism. I'll give you a hint: individualist anarchism. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Hardly I studied Marxist literature in university and came away with a first class degree. I can assure you that the central theme of Marxist ideology is that there is no master. If you don't believe me then instead of scoffing why don't you simply go to university and see for yourself? The central theme of Marxist ideology is that the proletariat will overthrow the bourgeoisie Right. The led will overthrow the leader. Marx did not even advance this prescriptively, but viewed it as an inevitable historical occurrence that would be born out of dialectical materialism You are babbling incoherently again. Nothing in this passage refutes the sentence you have disagreed with. Nobody has asked you for an essay on dialectical materialism. The sheer irony of this is amusing because the Hegelian dialectic is a process where I advance a theory, you refute it and we eventually reach the truth. It isn't a process where I advance a theory, you disagree but then start talking about something else entirely. Side: True.
I studied Marxist literature in university and came away with a first class degree. I can assure you that the central theme of Marxist ideology is that there is no master. If you don't believe me then instead of scoffing why don't you simply go to university and see for yourself? If the best you can muster after completing your first rate education in Marxist literature is a fallacious appeal to your own class based authority, then that degree appears to have been thoroughly wasted on you. Way to fail at basic praxis, comrade. Right. The led will overthrow the leader. You persist in the notion that economic and political leaders are the only thing to be overthrown. I've already explained why that is an exceedingly narrow viewpoint. I can't be arsed to explain it to you again. You are babbling incoherently again. Nothing in this passage refutes the sentence you have disagree with. It's literally a word salad with no relevance. You never tire of your trite ad hominem, I see. The relevance of that passage would be evident to anyone with a first class university education, presuming they were well suited to that educational opportunity. Clearly, class signals aren't everything, are they Mr Potter. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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If the best you can muster after completing your first rate education in Marxist literature is a fallacious appeal to your own class based authority Class based? Are you retarded? If I've been to university and studied Marxism then I'm qualified to tell you that Marxists believe in the complete abolition of socio-economic hierarchy. That you are wrong and I am right about something which can be objectively proven one way or the other is an appeal to factual reality, not class. Side: True.
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Just gonna double down against your professed values like that. I have never professed that the baseless opinion of a pig-ignorant contrarian with a narcissistic personality disorder should have more value than the opinion of somebody who is qualified in the subject matter. Side: True.
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Neither Antifa nor Anonymous are ideologically Marxist. Stop being stupid. Who do you suppose started the anti-fascist movement? Capitalists? Antifa literally sells Marxist pin badges:- Antifa Enamel Pin Badge - AFA Anti Fascist Action Marxist Socialist Communist Antifa members gather at a a rightwing No-To-Marxism rally at Martin Luther King Jr. Park in Berkeley, California in 2017 https://nypost.com/article/ What bad information and revisionist history have I invoked, exactly? I've literally just told you, idiot. You quoted me, scoffed and then plagiarised a section from Wikipedia about dialectical materialism. Marxists want the led to overthrow the leader, dismantle the social conditions which enabled society to be subordinated to that leader, and then start again with no leader. See:- On Authority Works of Frederick Engels 1872 https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/ Side: True.
Stop being stupid. Who do you suppose started the anti-fascist movement? Capitalists? Antifa literally sells Marxist pin badges:- There's considerable breadth of options other than Marxist and Capitalist, but I'm not surprised that you're trying to limit the political options. By your own acknowledgement, this is a decentralized group without leadership; now you feel a need to claim it for Marxism by red washing it with your ideology. Some internet rando selling Marxist pin badges as Antifa swag on ebay for profit hardly goes to demonstrate that Antifa is ideologically Marxist. Laughably, your second reference explicitly states that Antifa is politically diverse and not exclusively or predominantly Marxist. I've literally just told you, idiot. You quoted me, scoffed and then plagiarised a section from Wikipedia about dialectical materialism. Marxists want the led to overthrow the leader, dismantle the social conditions which enabled society to be subordinated to that leader, and then start again with no leader. See:- No, you literally did not. You haven't identified any bad information or revisionist history presented on my part. You haven't shown where I've invoked dictators either. You've just got a boring cookie-cutter response to critics of Marxism, and when that fails you fall back on avoiding anything of substance by hurling uninspired insults at people. I quoted you as saying that Marxism is an ideology in order to disprove your claim that Marxism is not an ideology, in support of my analysis about the exclusionary nature of ideologies (to which you have never directly responded). Dialectical materialism is common parlance in Marxist studies, so I didn't need to wiki that (though clearly you did, despite your first rate education in Marxist literature). I'm not going to read more Marxist literature on your meager suggestion. I've read enough to know that it's not radical enough (another point you keep avoiding). Side: Wait..., what? No!
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There's considerable breadth of options other than Marxist and Capitalist No there aren't. Every state in the world is either capitalist or Marxist. Marxists are anti-fascists because fascists occupy the opposing political pole. They are opposites, hence Marxists are by definition anti-fascists. I'm not surprised that you're trying to limit the political options Rather, I'm not surprised that you don't have an answer for why Antifa is selling Marxist pin badges over the internet, but yet can't bring yourself to accept that the anti-fascist movement began at fascism's opposing political pole. You are stupid, and you are trying to hide that stupidity behind complex synonyms and bizarre deflections. I'm not interested in your flowery language. I'm interested in you explaining why Antifa is selling Marxist pin badges. Side: True.
No there aren't. Every state in the world is either capitalist or Marxist. Marxists are anti-fascists because fascists occupy the opposing political pole. They are opposites, hence Marxists are by definition anti-fascists. LMAO: Marxism, the ideology of political choice my ass. Rather, I'm not surprised that you don't have an answer for why Antifa is selling Marxist pin badges over the internet I did. You ignoring it doesn't mean it never happened lol. but yet can't bring yourself to accept that the anti-fascist movement began at fascism's opposing political pole. ROFLMAO and you think other people are historical revisionists. XD You are stupid, and you are trying to hide that stupidity behind complex synonyms and bizarre deflections. I'm not interested in your flowery language. I'm interested in you explaining why Antifa is selling Marxist pin badges. No you're not. You're interested in overlooking that explanation, just as you're interested in avoiding anything else that challenges your narrow and shallow dogmatic worldview. Weak. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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ROFLMAO On top of being stupid you are also unwell. and you think other people are historical revisionists. Anti-fascism is opposition to fascist ideologies, groups and individuals. The anti-fascist movement began in a few European countries in the 1920s. Anti-fascist movements emerged first in Italy, during the rise of Mussolini, but soon spread to other European countries and then globally. In the early period, Communist, socialist, anarchist and Christian workers and intellectuals were involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ You stupid, incoherent, mentally ill idiot. Side: True.
On top of being stupid you are also unwell. The sickest. You have no idea. Communist, socialist, anarchist and Christian workers and intellectuals were involved. Your claim that anti-fascism originated as Marxist is therefore historically revisionist. Thanks for doing my legwork for me. Lets me just kick back and enjoy your shit show all the more. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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The sickest. You have no idea. I just illustrated that I do have an idea. Your claim that anti-fascism originated as Marxist is therefore historically revisionist. Except that I've just quoted in bold proof that the opposite is true. Communists, socialists and anarchists are all Marxists (albeit anarchists disagree about the transitional period before the free society). Side: True.
You've got an idea of it the way a man in Plato's cave grasps the world. Arbitrarily reducing distinct philosophical positions into the ideological politic you favor is as transparently fascist as it is incoherent. But, sure, guess I've been a Marxist this whole time. LMAO. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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You've got an idea of it the way a man in Plato's cave grasps the world. Why do you constantly reference things you haven't read and don't understand? Does pretending to be intelligent really give you such a buzz? Because, if so, that's something called NPD. It's a mental health condition and you need psychiatric treatment. Side: True.
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You're such a brilliant little parrot boy. I don't even know what that means. If I'm a parrot then how can I also be a boy? You really are a stupid, incoherent bitch. A complete waste of everybody's time. This is like talking to Mormont's crow So Mormont's crow was a parrot? Mormont's crow was neither a crow, a parrot or a boy. It was a raven. You stupid, stupid bitch. Side: True.
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I have read him. Obviously no you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't have made such an elementary error in the first place. All you do is flap your stupid, useless gums all day on various different user accounts. You're a pseudo-intellectual nincompoop who knows too little to know how little she knows. Side: True.
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Here. Try the encyclopaedia instead. Marx identified two phases of communism that would follow the predicted overthrow of capitalism: the first would be a transitional system in which the working class would control the government and economy yet still find it necessary to pay people according to how long, hard, or well they worked, and the second would be fully realized communism—a society without class divisions or government, in which the production and distribution of goods would be based upon the principle “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” Side: True.
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I'd prefer it if Americans understood that this idea about Republicans and Democrats representing the full spectrum of political opinion is absolutely ridiculous. We already know it's ridiculous. The Democratic Party should dissolve into nothing and let those who don't promote child sex changes rule the day. Side: True.
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I would prefer it if people understood that the idea of political ideologies representing their interests is absolutely ridiculous. Political ideology is a narrative construct that diminishes the individual and reduces them to servitude to that ideology. Marxism has been offering an exceedingly limited critique for well over a century. Political choice is diminished wherever political power concentrates, and such concentration is hardly limited to any single economic system. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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I would prefer it if people understood that the idea of political ideologies representing their interests is absolutely ridiculous. Political ideology is a narrative construct that diminishes the individual and reduces them to servitude to that ideology. That's a fine argument. Very well put. Marxism has been offering an exceedingly limited critique for well over a century. I don't agree with this at all. Marxist literature dominates university libraries. Having read some of it I can attest to how extensive, meticulous and detailed it is. Political choice is diminished wherever political power concentrates Yes, you are exactly right. The problem is that someone (or in reality an entire culture) has convinced you Marxism is about the concentration of political power when in fact the very reason it was invented in the first place was as an antidote to that same concentration of power. Marx saw that capitalism exists to exploit the labour of the worker so that the profits created by that labour can be enjoyed by the ruling class. It is, for all accounts and purposes, slavery. The working class are enslaved by the ruling class. Capitalism is the proverbial snake eating its own tail. Marx's idea was simply to decentralise wealth. Take it out of the hands of the few and the government whose job it is to protect those few. Side: Wait..., what? No!
That's a fine argument. Very well put. Thank you. I don't agree with this at all. Marxist literature dominates university libraries. Having read some of it I can attest to how extensive, meticulous and detailed it is. The dominance of Marxist literature in university libraries is testament to nothing more nor less than its academic popularity. Having also read Marxist literature myself, alongside anarchist critiques of it, I have come to an entirely opposite conclusion from yourself on the matter of its attributes. Yes, you are exactly right. The problem is that someone (or in reality an entire culture) has convinced you Marxism is about the concentration of political power when in fact the very reason it was invented in the first place was as an antidote to that same concentration of power. This one trick pony of yours is getting quite worn out. Try extending some basic benefit of the doubt for once and you might find some of your conversations move beyond trading in insults. Marx saw that capitalism exists to exploit the labour of the worker so that the profits created by that labour can be enjoyed by the ruling class. It is, for all accounts and purposes, slavery. The working class are enslaved by the ruling class. Capitalism is the proverbial snake eating its own tail. This critique which you (mis)attribute to Marx is more properly identified with the antecedent works of his German contemporaries, especially Feuerbach and Stirner. History remembers Marx because his ideas were ultimately less radical and more polemical, thus simultaneously less threatening to the politically empowered and more appealing to the average mind. I don't disagree with he critique against capitalism, by and large. I object to the failure to take the critique further, which owes to the limitations imposed by Marx's 'solution'. Marx's idea was simply to decentralise wealth. Take it out of the hands of the few and the government whose job it is to protect those few. Precisely. Marx's position is too simply concentrated on economics and the distribution of wealth. Marx does not extend the critique to the nation-state, to humanity, to universal ethics, etc. and so the individual remains oppressed beneath ideological narrative. Worse, Marx invokes these phantasma as part of the solution. Side: True.
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Here's a BBC story from 40 minutes ago:- President Donald Trump is making Somali-American congresswoman Ilhan Omar one of the bogeywomen of his campaign for re-election to the White House in November - and by proxy her country of birth Somalia. In his most recent attack, at a campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, he tore into the 37-year-old alleging that she wanted to bring the "anarchy" of Somalia to the US. "She would like to make the government of our country just like the country from where she came - Somalia. No government, no safety, no police, no nothing, just anarchy. And now, she's telling us how to run our country. No, thank you." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ Trump is copying Hitler speeches. He isn't even being covert about it. This is exactly the same divisive, racially-charged rhetoric which Hitler used against his enemies. Side: True.
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(In reference to Bront) "He's obviously extremely intelligent. " -Rusticus https://www.createdebate. Side: True.
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No, it's not a problem... I had no idea what you were talking about, I asked you about it I thought I made it fairly clear, but my apologies if not. The second post attempts to highlight the error in assuming any two values are equivalent just because they happen to be the only two values. In this case, you applied that fallacy to the Republicans and the Democrats. The Democrats might be shit, but they haven't gone full fascist. The Republicans have gone full fascist. They are not equivalent because one of them is considerably more dangerous to world peace than the other. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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Here's the problem.. In order for us to HAVE the right mindset, or even discuss what the RIGHT mindset IS, we'd have to AGREE on a certain set of facts. We DON'T.. We used to agree to respecting the flag and the founders and free speech. Only one party decided that wasn't the agreement anymore. Guess which one. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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The irony of opposing free speech in the same breath as you claim to support it has eluded you. Notably, flag burning is protected speech because Scalia and Kennedy voted alongside three other justices to form the majority opinion. Without their conservative appreciation for the value of free speech, flag burning would not be protected. But, by all means, do carry on in your confused ways; it amuses mildly, if nothing else. Side: True.
But, it's the SAME right wing "mindset" that OPPOSED civil rights in the '60's, that OPPOSES them today Fact Check: ‘More Republicans Voted for the Civil Rights Act as a Percentage Than Democrats Did’ Which civil rights do Republicans currently oppose, so we'll both know. Side: Wait..., what? No!
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You seem to have missed this part out:- Fact check: " Republicans often had fewer total votes in support" Isn't it interesting how you and Shapiro both always omit the facts which are inconvenient, and try to sell us only the convenient ones? The ones which make you look good? It's never the full story, is it? When you omit half the story you just give yourself away as a partisan extremist. Side: True.
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What you've also failed to point out is that the time period under discussion was smack in the middle of the platform transition between the two parties. The south was a Democrat stronghold back then, which is why a greater percentage of Republicans voted for these bills. Of course the situation has reversed itself today, with the racist south being a Republican stronghold, but as per usual you and Shapiro both fail to tell us that because it doesn't suit your wingnut agenda. Side: True.
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