#1 |
#2 |
#3 |
Paste this URL into an email or IM: |
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
|
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
|
This is how liberals argue
True
Side Score: 158
|
 |
Wait..., What? No!
Side Score: 149
|
|
1
point
1
point
0
points
4
points
2
points
2
points
"The politics of Nazism The political right is popularly associated with the following principles. Of course, it goes without saying that these are generalizations, and not every person on the far right believes in every principle, or disbelieves its opposite. Most people's political beliefs are complex, and cannot be neatly pigeonholed. This is as true of Hitler as anyone. But since the far right is trying peg Hitler as a leftist, it's worth reviewing the tenets popularly associated with the right. These include: Individualism over collectivism. Racism or racial segregation over racial tolerance. Eugenics over freedom of reproduction. Merit over equality. Competition over cooperation. Power politics and militarism over pacifism. One-person rule or self-rule over democracy. Capitalism over Marxism. Realism over idealism. Nationalism over internationalism. Exclusiveness over inclusiveness. Meat-eating over vegetarianism. Gun ownership over gun control Common sense over theory or science. Pragmatism over principle. Religion over secularism." The rest is here: Side: Wait..., What? No!
Wow are you sorely misguided...have you read any "real" history of hitler? He said what he thought the people wanted to hear, but did NOT practice those he preached. I could go thru everyone of your points listed and site examples of "his version" of those things, but instead i will point out the obvious path that the liberals are taking us down as we speak..."meat-eating", he believed this for the elites but not for the people..he implemented policies that didnt infringe on their right to eat it, but made it impossible for most to afford it. He also banned smoking, wanted nationalized healthcare, nationalized the banks, seized businesses and private property, he was also a studier of marxism....i dont know what website you copied this from, but you should really read more.... Side: True
0
points
Hitler was also for "Traditional Family Values", from his Wikipedia page "Nazi policies toward women strongly encouraged them to stay at home to bear children and keep house. In a September 1934 speech to the National Socialist Women's Organization, Adolf Hitler argued that for the German woman her "world is her husband, her family, her children, and her home." " He proposed what we now call a "Nuclear Family", a working Father who supports his Stay-at-Home Wife and tends to the children. Sounds kinda like a conservative idea, doesnt it? Maybe Hitler was Conservative? NO He was politically nothing special, being fairly moderate if anything. But regardless of his political ideals, both sides seem childish here or resorting to the "Hitler bounces off me and sticks to you" approach. Why not actually talk about the issues? Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Hitler wasn't a liberal. Hitler was a dictator who used the socialist party to get what he wanted. He was more to the "right". The Hitler is a liberal myth is the reason that uninformed voters and people who are politically challenged give liberals a bad name. Side: Wait..., What? No!
Dictators do NOT lean "right". There is nothing conservative about a dictator, so your statment is contradictive, liberal's lean left, dictators lean left, they believe in absolute government control over choices and freedoms, they think that the people are not smart enough to make their own choices. You speak of uninformed voters, well you should read the book "liberal fascism" by Jonah Goldberg, it outlines in great detail the lie about Hitler leaning right. Then you too could be an informed voter. Side: True
I only commented on Hitler as he was brought up in this debate as leaning "right". It is important to identify who he was and his policies , as with this debater many compare Hitler to the "right" and that is factually incorrect, so being an informed voter means knowing history, especially when a false claim is being made. Side: True
Meh, the whole "was Hitler a leftist or rightist" debate is frivolous. Serious historians would not be likely to slap such wide, vague labels on the subjects of their study, and especially would not force historical evidence to fit such labels in order to use them in political mud-slinging. Identifying Hitler's policies is an important historical and political topic, but simply calling him a leftist or rightist and bringing up a few examples to support that claim isn't identifying his policies. It's just another case of reductio ad Hitlerum - comparing your opponent's arguments to Hitler's policies in order to make them look bad. Joe was saying Hitler was a liberal just to rile people up, as usual... Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
-1
points
He also published a youth manual that proclaimed "nutrition is not a private matter", he belived that the individual had no right NOT to be healthy and therefore the state had an obligation to force them to be healthy (sound familiar, Michelle Obama?) They also outlawed smoking, hmmm.....these all sound like liberal ideas.....so where did the idiotic myth that hitler was right leaning come from? maybe the liberals? Side: True
2
points
I think you and Hitler would get on fine my friend. Your both willing to excuse atrocious crimes, your both facists (or nearly facists) and your both idiots. Q.E.D. NOTE: dont take this seriously Joe im just having some fun, im not left or right, liberal or consservative and i like to think about solutions to the problem (but when it comes down to it you'll apologuise for any atrocity commited by your own side just like the Nazis apologuised for the holocaust) Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I'm not apologizing for anything. I think that there are way too many people on the planet. I think we should get rid of some. Especially the stupid ones. It would cut back on green house gases and be good not only for the economy but also for the environment. Who needs stupid people anyway. ;) Side: True
2
points
Yes there are way too many on the planet, its because were essentially a virus. What you dont seem to realise is the model for living put forth by your "holy than thou" government (i.e. consumer capitalism) is without doubt the most destrucitve in human history. Your culture breeds sutpidity, egocentrism,materilism...etc., etc. If everyone was allowed live as wastfully as you americans than i think we'd have used up this planet a long time ago. Also, if your gona get rid of the stupid people start at home and do away with yourself. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
2
points
My argument makes perfect sense, did ever think that the problem you have is that your incapable of seeing sense. Here let me explain; firstly your culture is stupid (extremely stupid) most Americans know more about what colour was Britney Spears shit in the last week than the destruction their government has caused in the last week (at home or abroad). Now, you dont rule the world, you rape the world, both environemntally and economically, and most of the poor and defenless of the world suffer.Now please dont respond with that, its not all americas fault crap, i know its not, but relatively speaking the argument can be made that it is largely atrributable to the U.S. in the form of goverment and corporations and so nforth and so on. Now, your culture is stupid, but the people in charge arent stupid. Does it not make sense to you that the puppet masters would want to keep there population stupid, i mean really its one of the oldest ploys in the book(why not try reaadin up on it oh wait i just remembered your a small minded ignorant american who beleives his government is just and good no matter what they do.). Keep your population dumb and ignorant and they wont know how their being fucked in the ass everyday.Also, fill them up with nationalistic propaganda to the piont where if anyone even questions the motives of the government their immediately labelled unpatriotic. Thats not stupid thats very smart, beleive the mechanisms being utilised in order to control and manipulate the piopultion onf the U.S. are the most ingenious ever used. Let me ask you a question. The education system in America is the worst in the Western world, now its true that the elites go to the best colleges but they are the eiltes for the average american the education system is largely a failure, why do think that is, do you think thats its accidental. Also, many opinion based surveys have suggested for a long time that over 70% of the American population want free healthcare of the kind available to me here in Ireland, in England and all over Europe, yet this is never even up for debate in your political system. Do you why that is. Ill tell, because the corporations that have effective control of your healthcare system have done the sums and they know if the U.S> ever had free healthcare they'd lose massive money. Their not willing to lode that money so they tell the government, thats not up for discussion and whether it be republican or democrat they dont discuss it. Now, your military budget increases year on year. Funny that isnt it. This area that really doesnt benefit the population in any real way receives so much year on year without fail EXCEPT TO FIGHT THOSE PESCY TERRORISTs WHO ARE PLAININ ANOTHER 9/11 ANYDAY NOW (dont make me laugh your government uses that shit to explain their horrible actions, before terrorism communism was the big evil but since the USSR fell they had to invent another). Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
OK, I'll prove to you that your argument makes no sense. You say, you (I'm assuming you mean the American military) rape the world, both environemntally and economically, and most of the poor and defenless of the world suffer (I am assuming you mean that the world's poor and defenseless suffer while Americans live the good life because they get to reap the benefits of the raping). your military budget increases year on year. Funny that isnt it. This area that really doesnt benefit the population (I'm assuming you mean the American military and the American population). Well....., how can you say that investing in the American military doesn't benefit the American population when you just said that the American population benefits from the American military raping the world's poor and defenseless? Q.E.D. ;) I think you're jealous. You want to be over here benefiting with us. Reaping the rewards our military extracts from around the world. You don't like being raped (BTW, if you relax, it doesn't hurt as much ;) Update: My friends in Iraq noticed the contradiction as well. They told me that I am right in refusing to have a battle of wits with someone who is clearly unarmed ;) My other friend said that your argument also doesn't make sense to him. May the problem is not with us being incapable of seeing sense. Maybe the problem is with you. You're the common denominator, you're the weakest link ;) Side: True
2
points
When i say its a catchall term for you (because you support you countries actions), the military, the government (policies) and the corporations , IMF etc. etc. which have there roots within th American elite. Not all AMericans get to reap the good life the model omposed on the your people is very similar to the kind of democracy your government likes to export i.e. 5% of the population control most of the wealth. Now the difference is because your country is so rich this equates to a relatively good standard of living for most but beleive me if you government was passing on the riches to every citizen the least you'd have is a good education system and free healthcare. Side: Wait..., What? No!
2
points
I have a good education and I don't want free healthcare. I don't want the government taking care of me. I don't want the government making decisions for me. I don't want to give the government my money (in the form of taxes) and let the government decide what healthcare coverage to buy for me. I'm a big boy, I like to make my own decisions. Do you still at home with your parents ;) Side: True
1
point
What the fuck are you talking about. Your government makes decision for you whether you like it or not your just too blind to see that. As for the free healthcare, so your telling if you need an operation that costs in excess of a hundred grand that you'd prefer to pay yourself, what if you cant afford it, most people in your country can't due to the fact that the disparity between rich and poor in your country is so large even though your the richest. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Right. The government does make decisions for me that I don't think they should be making. There's very little I can do to change that. However, Obama care is something that I hope to still have something to say about it. As far as me (personally) needing an operation and having to pay for it, yes. That is my preference. I am lucky to be among the ones that can afford it ;) Side: True
1
point
Exactly you just answered your own question my friend whether you meant to or not, yes you are lucky to be able to afford it. Do you how many people cant though, i mean really were talkin about a service that all developed european countries have and if even for a second some politician suggested abolishing it i honestly think he'd be strung up by the next. Its accepted now that thats one of our entitlements but in your country its not even up for discussion even though the majority of people want it. Now what kind of democracy is that my friend, really, I'm asking. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Sorry, Joe they dont have your money or qualifications (you due to the shit education system), so they cant just go to some country that has free healthcare.I think we both know thats not how the world works and the fact that you returned with that statement proves just how warpedd your view of reality is. NOW ive already stated that very credible statistical surveys have been done with the results proving that a very clear majority of American people badly want free healthcare. Why do you deny the truth. I mean i know it doesnt fit into your narrow view of the world but why argue against it when you know its true. Of course peopel who cant afford proper medicval care and those who find it a major strain on their budget (which basically accountrs for the majority of Americans right there) want to have it for free. You should know that, i mean really are you that blind, im not even American and i know that. Seriously what makes you think they dont, im really what flimsy argument can you throw at me that proves they dont. Wait its not because a few of your posh friends are happy with not having it, it is? And they obviously speak for the majority, just like your Iraqi friends, dont they. Go on come back with your arguemnt, when you do ill try to find those surveys i was talkin about. Side: Wait..., What? No!
2
points
Actually, my Iraqi friends took offense at your remark that Iraq is a backwards country. They said that Iraq is a very modern country and that most people have radio, television, cell phones and computers with internet access. Then one of them said something (that was NOT very nice) about your mother (I wont repeat it here). If Obama care was so widely accepted as you claim it is, then why did the Tea Party take off as quickly as it did and why are the conservative politicians fighting to get it overturned? Anyway, I'm going to find my very credible statistical surveys too. ;) Side: True
1
point
Ok, i can respond to the first to arguments easily and promtly.Ill have to wait till i have more spare time to get those surveys, i had them before, there quite hard to find but dont worry "for you" ill get them. Now, i really dont care what a bunch of rich Iraqis think, ok.Oh, ya there not rich they can just afford most Western Luxuries, i forgot.I got news for ya by Iraqis standards thats filthy rich. Answer me a question, do they live in the north of Iraq, the area with the most money and the most untouched by the war.The area that fox and cnn kept showing on t.v. when most of the rest of the country was laying in ruins, when suicide bombings were a adily occurence (and are still quite frequent). You dont seem to understand. I never said Iraq was a backwards country, i nerver said anything of the sort, i consider them to be a very cultured people with a rich and vibrant (and heartbreaking) history. So, please dont put words in my mouth. Now, ive already stated that teh facts tell a very different story to the one you want to think. I'm surprised you brought this argument back up. I thought you'd know you were wrong and just drop it. But now that you have i can destroy you with the REAL facts and not something some rich Iraqis thinks. Now you can label this propaganda if you wish but as usual the only person you'll fool is yourself.This is from the world health organizantion.You've probably heard of them, you know one of the most wellv respected impartial organizations in the world. It details the current state of health in the country, and beleive me (im a scientist and engineer) the numbers are not good. http://www.who.int/countries/irq/en/ Heres, an article about the infrostructure, although the source is less reliable, mainly becaue the WHO is about as reliable as it gets. This article doesnt even do justice to the current state of inforstructure or how it got that way, but it gives you enough of an idea. This is because its affliated with the world bank(a predominantly american organization) and thus it doesnt give a complete picture. I dont think i need to explain how the country got this way the article clearly points out that befoe Gulf 1 "Prior to the 1990s, Iraq’s infrastructure was among the best in the Middle East." Ill throw the ball back to you to come up with some nationalistic propaganda that somehow clears America of any guilt. By the way dont say theres no piont in pointing fingers, this isnt over, the country is still in a terrible condition and your country contines to steall its oil.If you need proof of that heres Noam Chomsky (keep in mind this man has never been proved wrong and its not for want of trying(thats an understatement)):http://www.chomsky. Again, i found both of these sources in a great hurry, if i actually spent some time looking id be able to show you in detail exactly the destruction casue and id be able to implicate America for all of it i.e. speific bombing runs that destroyed electrical grids, sanitation systems etc. etc.But i think these sources are enough to adequately sillence your bullshit. Now, Obama care is not free healthcare, it doesnt even come close. I already stated that free healthcare isnt even up for discussion in your country as it goes against the will of the corporations, therefore it doesnt get discussed.It would be politcal suicide for any politician to suggest it but again i must reiterate, it is widely acknowledged as being desired by the majority of the population. Democracy at its finest.Ill get those surveys when i have some free time, i think they were from the John Hopkins University, there veracity wasnt up for discussion, i remeber that much. Side: Wait..., What? No!
2
points
most of the rest of the country was laying in ruins, when suicide bombings were a adily occurence (and are still quite frequent). Wait. You blamed Americans for Iraqi deaths. Now you're blaming suicide bombers? Tell me something, are you usually drunk when you type this stuff up? ;) Side: True
1
point
I'm not blaming suicide bombers or America, im stating a fact. Your country created the current mess.Why dont you try staying on point. Everything i said is in defense or my original argument, America has caused Iraq a loty more pain and suffering than Saddam. They've ruined the inforstructure, healthcare and caused the country to become completely destablised.Do you deny this cause the facts i presented (i believe i can alot more) dont support your idea if Iraq being some kind of modern metropolis where you and your rich Iraqis friends frolic and prance around its many modern LGBT locations. This argument was one of the first things i posted to you, you disagreed with it then and you still do but all you have been able to present in defence of your case is something some well off Kurds think.I'm sorry that just doesnt hold any water. And, yes i do occasionally have a drink while im on this thing.I'm irish for fucks sake. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I'm telling you, it's the freaking terrorists. They created this mess. I've learned a long time ago that everything on this planet can be blamed on either terrorism or Global Warming. And, if you blame Global Warming on the terrorist, you can blame everything on the terrorists ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
You see thats a mistruth that you been lead to beleive, isreal, the UK and maybe Australia are really the only countries that come to mind. In practically all the others the only people who like you are the dictators or eliltes you've ensured have a easy life on the backs of the countries people. Even in the UK and Australia there is massive anti-american feeling. You see this is what is put on your t.v. is that a country like saudi arabia loves you, what they dont say is that its the repressive regime that loves you the people hate you caouse you prop up that regime. this is a regime that routinely cuts the heads off its own population, chops the hands off people, public hangins, a country where brutal sharia law is enforced, woamns rights are completely non-existnat e.g. if a man rapes a woman the man gets off skot free foe being tempted but the woman gets stoned to death for being a temptress,.......the list is endless.Your country support this governement, props it up and has done so for a long long time. Its kept them in power and still does, and it doesnt look like the revolution will spread to SA due to the fact that the government is so repressive that the peoeple probably have no way to organise themselves to resist. Ive been to Iran with my parents, there are many things wrong with it but uts a quite a free scoiety despite what you've been led to beleive. The only reason the extreme elemants thrive within the countruy is due to the fact that they feel so cornered i.e. they expect a US-Isreali ivasion Here are some links to very interestin reports for Amnesty Interbnational on the regime in SA.Ive learned the hard way you that i have to supply irrefutable evidence otherwise your small mindedness forces yuo to respond with the allegation that its leftist propaganda without even engaging with it. Try to call these and the WHO article i sent previously leftist propaganda. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
What??? I'm merely showing you the kind of regime your government like to play ball with.Are you telling me Amnesty International aren't telling the truth cause they've got some agenda, cause really man thats quite pathetic. I'm not saying my world view is perfect, in fact if you think something ive said is false and you've got a credible source proving so, send it on to, id like to think im objective enough to acknowledge its truthfulness. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
and beleive me (im a scientist and engineer) OK, a pattern is starting to form in your arguments. Apparently the reader is supposed to say, "Ooh, yeah, that must be true because garry77777 is a scientist and an engineer and he quotes people that write lots of books and get quoted quite often." ;) Side: True
1
point
I said that cause i dela with statistics, graphs and numbers in general on a day to day basis and the webiste i was sending you to presented a lot of factual evidence in the form of numerical and graphical data e.g. death rates, probabilities, comparisons over different time periods etc. etc. It thus required a level of interpretation you may not be used to.Thats all, you can make whatever you want from it but the facts are the facts. Like them or lump. And you seem to like to lump them. Ive continuosly mentioned one man Noam Chomsky.Again, i only mentioned him continuosly because he is absolutely amazing and is a hero to many (including myself) well informed people aroiund the world, in your own country as well, where he is from. And by the way there a big difference between "quoted quite often" and 2nd most quoted author in history and you know it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
I have listened to Rush and Bill O Reilly, take my word it. The probelm is when you do you can immediately see through their lies. Why dont you try listening to Noam Chomsky see if you can see can prove hes not telling the truth. If you can, you'll have done something the entire intellectual community has been trying to do for a long time. I gaurantee you, if you can prove this man wrong on anything you'll make headlines, go ahead try it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
As i said Joe if you can prove this man wrong you'll make headlines. Hes not Rush or Bill or Seam Hannity or any of these demagogues that can spout whatever lies and false truth they want and still keep their jobs as long as its the kind of bullshit the corporate fat cats want to indoctrinate you with you with. This man is renowned for telling thr truth, never saying anything thats false, if you knew the level of scrutiny that his books books are subjected to (as compared to other prople who realise books that are in keeping with washington policy), that facts he presents are irrefutable because if they werent the American intellectual community would have used it to discredit him along time ago. Look you may disagree with his opnions and the conclusions he comes to but i gaurantee you if you listne to the facts he presents you'll start to get a dose of REAL truth. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
No, not my reality, fuckin hell man, actual rality if you know what is. I've admitted i dont have everything correct, far from it. I'm just as fallable as you but at least im trying, im not dismissing things if they dont fit into my way of thinking or viewig the world. I told you thats how i came to have the opnions i have. The reason i kept mantionaing NC is cause honestly (and i really mean this) hes as close to an infallable human as ive ever come across. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I don't believe that you fully grasp what N.C. is saying. You need to be able to put it into your own words. Pasting a link and telling people to go read/view it for themselves serves no purpose because it is too much to digest. If you take a small piece and put it in your own words, then people can find and pick the flaws in your understanding. Thus helping you improve your understanding of the piece. If you just direct people to N.C., they will interpret it in their own way and move on, not necessarily getting the same understanding you have. You also need to get your intent and presentation in harmony. If your intent is to get a soldier to consider the citizens he is being asked to kill, you don't call that soldier a baby killer and belittle him. If you want someone to have a real debate about a given topic, you don't start off by calling him an idiot. Your brush strokes are too wide. Finally, be careful with heroes. They are human and thus fallible. They have been known to let people down. Side: True
1
point
Ya, thats actually not bad advice, honestly i mean that. Take my word i wouldnt have reacted the way i did if i met you face to face. On these sites you dont feel half as restrained and inevitably that means when somebody takes a swipe at you you react in a way you normally wouldn't. I kind of agree with your assessment of pasting a link also, but i think its wrong in the case of NC for the simple reason that there erally is only one way to interpret him. Thats just my opinion. By the way i don't normally start my debates calling people names, before this debate i had a lengthly one with a Jew living in Jeruselem and there was no name calling involved. I'm sorry to say this but your style of arguing pushed me into it. As well i agree, your heros do inevitably let you down, i acknowledge this, but he has repeatedly said he doesnt want to be viewed that way, probably for that exact reason. His intention is to get people to make up there own minds. He doesnt wan to be a leader of any kind. He knows just as Orwell (the proles) knew that people need to come to there own conclusions. He merely tries (as he has tried for many years) to help people do this, that is why i idiolize him. By the way hes in his late 70s so he doesnt have too much time left to let me down. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Idolize is a strong word, the man has flaws, he is human, the reason i directed you to him is because as far as i can see there are very few (maybe none) mistakes in the fact he presents. I respect him as much as one human being can respect another but i dont idolize him. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Thats right Joe.You know me too well. I bend down slobber all over the engorged head of his penis. I go to town on that thing. I fucking vacuum it dry. Hoelfully if he hasnt showered there'd be some 'mature chedder' encrusted under the rim of the head of his penis, good eaten. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world." Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
It is because you don't get a job and join us in being a productive member of society that you're unimportant, peripheral and dying. I bet you're one of those people that says, "I work to live, not live to work. Live simply so that other can simply live." and other similar happy horse shit ;) Side: True
1
point
No i do what i enjoy, i dont do what society tells me's to do. I dont need anyones approval but my own, i dont need to fit myself into some confined cultural box in order to be acepted by my peers. My individuality is something i cherish as much as being alive and i wouldnt give it up for all th emoney in the world.I dont expect you to understand. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
No i dont think i have the world fihured out. Far from it my friend. Beleive it or not i do have humility. You may not htink so, and i admit from our exchanges i probably havent given you that impression. The facts is my beleifs are far more malleable than yours will ever be. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Actually he has one of the most booked out people in the world. He was on our omst prominent political tv shows back in January actually. You can find some of the stuff he did on american tve on youtube. You see back when he first started speaking out against american foreign policy, the intellectual community thought they could beat him anf thus discredit him. William F Buckley the famous conservative who had a very popular political tv show in the 60s had him on. I dont know if you know of Buckley either but i can assure you he was consider the most intellectual conservative of his day. His tv show usually consisted of him absolutely killing an opponent in a debate. They brought Chomsky on thinking they could silence this new upstart. You should really watch the debate (its from 1969) its an hour long and the whole thing is on youtube. Its a great intellectual debate of the kind you definitely wouldnt see on american tv today. iIts not propaganda either its a very interesting and entertainig debate with two great intellectuals, yes thats right i admire Buckley as well, although i would have disgreed with everything he stood for i can admit when someone is a spellbinding orator, witty and and an otustanding debater. I advise you to watch it, even the first 10min its really funny he threatens to punch Chomsky in the fact, jokingly of course but you can tell he'd be quite prepared to do it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Really, 50 years old, fuckin hell, why didnt you say so. I would have stopped being so opinionated a long time ago if i knew you were that old. Your entirely correct, once you reach a age like that it becomes almost impossible to change. If you really wanted to though, i recommended a healthy dose of Salvia Divinorum or magic mushrooms.Whatever you can get your hands on, i would recommend anything fromthe street though, something natural. Taking those substances opened mind completely, even more than i was ready for. You should still watch the debate, honeestly its quite good, despite whos piont of view you agree with. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
No, Joe not like Charlie. Heres a question for you, do you ever wonder why every opinion that comes out of your mouth sounds like its coming from a American government spokesman or the equivalent of big brother in 1984. Your entire view of the world has been manipulated by the system. You think exactly what they want you to think. You probably think you come up with all your own opinions but what i can tell from conversing with you is that your culture has decided exactly what opnions you hold.I dont know if your even capable of formulating your own thoughts anymore. Even that Charlie Sheen jibe, lets look at that in context. Hes a washed up star or something, whos off the rails (i dont know exactly i dont consume cultural garbage like you) so hes obviously top the news at the moment. Top story, Front page news Charlie Sheen pucked onto a curb outside a whore house and it was neon green and blue. You see thats the quality of news your population gets these days. Also, you've been told by your culture that all drugs are bad, well i can tell thats simply not true. These substancs i.e. pslocybin mushrooms, salvia divinorum etc. etc. are naturally occuring subsrances on this planet and have been used by people on this planet for as long as we've had humans with unbeleivable benefits im not even gona go into it, so when you call them drugs your just espousing the same tired old propaganda you've been taught to beleive. As well, you calling what i write crap, Jesus man the pot and kettle quote doesnt even cover it. Why dont you look at some the ABSOLUTE COMPLETE UTTER FUCKING DIARRHEA you've composed. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Look, I'm almost 50 years old. Do you really think I give a rat's ass? Have you ever heard the old saying, "You can't teach old dogs new tricks?" I don't care how entertaining it is. I just want to sit here, drink a beer, and give you a hard time. I'm an ornery old fart ;) Side: True
1
point
Ill throw the ball back to you to come up with some nationalistic propaganda that somehow clears America of any guilt. Yeah, I can give you a reason as to why the country's infrastructure is all screwed up. It's because Saddam never fixed it up. He just kept on stealing the Iraqi's oil for himself. Then America had to step in and help the Iraqis get rid of him. We didn't want to get involved but hey...., they asked for assistance. ;) Side: True
1
point
Back that statement up Joe.Come on back it up, what have you got to prove that. I gave you two very credible links to support my arguments. One from the WHO cannot be disputed by anyone who calls themselves rational. Why dont read nsome of what i sent you Joe e.g. "Prior to the 1990s, Iraq’s infrastructure was among the best in the Middle East." Was that just before the U.S. invaded, oh i think it was..wait but that must mean everything your saying is complete shit, oh sorry. Ya, he was stealing Iraqs oil for himself, then america road in on a big white horse and saved the day and gave all the oil back to the people, and all was well with the world.Fuckin hell, i dont even know what to say to that, aside from your an idiot, of course. Who asked for assistance, nobody, not the 2nd time round.They asked for assistance just after Gulf 1 and America let alot of people get slaughtered when they rose up REMEMBER. America didnt go in there to assist anyone the 2nd time round or the 1st time round. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
I dont really agree that reality is subjective. Reality is only subjective when you chose to ignore it in favour of a more palatable version, this is not meant to be an insult. One of my friends is farily badly addicted to drugs, yet in his head theres no real problem, he thinks hes really smart, and he deludes himslef about almost everthing in his life. My point is everyone deludes themselves (me included), your reality will be subjective only by the amount you chose to delude yourself. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Try this little experiment. At a party or large gathering, make sure that a few people witness the same event. Then ask them about their experience. It is interesting to see how one person's experience can be totally different from another person's experience of the same event. It has to do with each individual's life experience up to that point in time. What we perceive is shaped by our past experiences. Side: True
1
point
Look please dont try to educate me on human behaviour, believe me im one of the most introspective people around and ive analysed myslef and the world around me to an unhealthy degree .My piont is that you seem incapable of acknowledging is that you cannot refute the facts e.g. Iraq being one of the most developed countries in the middle east prior to the 1st gulf invasion. See, thats a fact, its not up for discussion, you can try twisting that reality as much as you want, you can be completely subjective on how you chose to view it, but its still a fact. Trying to state any other than Iraq was one of the most developed countries in the midlle east prior to the 1st Gulf war makes youy a liar.You see once you start heariing the facts you can try to rationalise them whatever way you chose but eventually you receive so much of them that your orginally viewpiont is challenged in such a way that at some piont in order to keep it you'll have to beleive in lies.Some people beleive so strongly in their own partular propaganda that they can stomach beleiving a lie. They can even kill for that lie. ] You should really read 1984, by George Orwell.Please dont return with "it is propaganda" if you dont know of this book, its one of the greatest books ever written.Its specifically targets communism but Orwell actually intentionally wrote a foreword stating that everything in the book could equally be applied to captilism (UK and USA specifically), this was excluded from later editions of the book for obvious reasons. Most people in the U.S.(you included) dont have to face this chioce for the simple reason that their daily dose of propaganda is formulated with the specific intention of distorting the facts, being extremely selective in what facts they chose to show and in some instances just out right lies.They all tell you that your fighting the good fight everything you do is for the greater good you make mistakes sometimes (like killing millions) but you were just trying tio do teh right thing. Your nation can do no wrong, those terrorists however they are by definition evil, they can never do anything right even if some of them are simply wish that this foriegn power would vacate their country, or these foregin powers (US & Isreal) would stop trying to exterminate them, or these foreign powers (the West in general, US mainly) would stop stealing their resources and explioting their people, no their never right there evil, its not like there peopel like me or you, there evil. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Ok, thats your choice. But i dont expect to take my word for any of it. It was my hope that you'd disagree fervently and go and try to prove me wrong and in doing so you'd gain a more complete picture of things. Who knows you may have proved me on certain thing, i dmit my claims can be a little outlandish at times when i really get into a rant but i guess we'll never know. Your perfectly content living in ignorance, as long as that ignorance fits nicely into your narrow minded view of the world. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
You are just young and idealistic and full of oats to sew. You're chomping at the bit to change the world and show us all how things ought to run and how much better your vision is. Hell, I was there decades ago. All I have to do is wait you out. Eventually you too will get old and come to the same realization I came to. ;) Side: True
1
point
Well thats my intention isnt to burn out but somehow i think you'll have the last laugh on this one, i have to admit. I do recognise that in years to come my strong views will probably become weaker and weaker but given what i currently know of this world, there are things i can do to prevent that. You see i look at father, he was very much a product of the sixties counter culture, or at least how it manifested in my country. Hes very set in his ways now though, to the extent that i rarely disagree with him passionately on anything. I recognise in 40yrs, that could be me but there are things i can do to prevent that from happening. The only thing is whether ill wanto or not. I cant predict the future i can only act on what i feel. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
OK, let me get this straight. We steal their oil (even though we pay them for it)? We steal their oil but their leaders have billions of U.S. dollars? We steal their oil but it is their leaders who refuse to distribute the wealth down to their people? It benefits us for those leaders not to distribute the oil wealth down to their people? I think you're drinking some pretty potent cider ;) Side: True
1
point
You see Joe its just not that simple. Ill try to break it donw for you, ok. I dont blame you for thinbking that way, it makes sense plus it clears your country of any guilt. Id expect no less of any other American. Yes you steal their oil but its not the kind of stealing where you just take it and run, none of your countries actions are like that, you rape other countries resources by manipulating the laws (i.e. free market economics etc. etc.) that your own corporations and companies created. Ill give you a good example prior to the revolution in Bolivia, you know when the indigenous leader Evo Moralis was put into power, the people were under the thumbs of US corporate power to the extent that they were being charged for their own water. \sderiously look into it if you want, the people who had lived in the country for thousands of years were being charged extortionate rates for their own resources (even water). This was done all above board, everything legal like. Now i doesnt take a genious (at least in my opnion) to realise that if something like that can be legal then we have a problem with the law. The corrupt leaders get a cut of the massive profits in order for people like you to be able to say exactly what you just wrote, the fact is the majority of the wealth goes into US corporate hands. In relation to the oil in Iraq,this was written after the surge: "Negotiations are under way for Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners decades ago in the Iraq Petroleum Company, now joined by Chevron and other smaller oil companies — to renew the oil concession they lost to nationalisation during the years when the oil producers took over their own resources. The no-bid contracts, apparently written by the oil corporations with the help of U.S. officials, prevailed over offers from more than 40 other companies, including companies in China, India and Russia" "That these were the primary goals of the invasion was always clear enough through the haze of successive pretexts: weapons of mass destruction, Saddam's links with Al-Qaeda, democracy promotion and the war against terrorism, which, as predicted, sharply increased as a result of the invasion. " The Declaration also had a remarkably brazen statement about exploiting the resources of Iraq. It said that the economy of Iraq, which means its oil resources, must be open to foreign investment, "especially American investments." That comes close to a pronouncement that we invaded you so that we can control your country and have privileged access to your resources In Foreign Affairs, Steven Simon points out that current US counterinsurgency strategy is "stoking the three forces that have traditionally threatened the stability of Middle Eastern states: tribalism, warlordism and sectarianism." The outcome might be "a strong, centralised state ruled by a military junta that would resemble" Saddam's regime. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
And China, India and Russia are so dumb that they didn't realize they were being duped by the Americans. Only you were smart enough to figure out how the Americans were pulling the wool over China, India and Russia's eyes. China, India and Russia are (using your favorite debate tactics) stupid idiots. And the reader should bow down to your superior intelligence. I'm surprised China, India and Russia haven't made you their leader ;) Side: True
1
point
Again Joe i have to ask what the fuck aren you talking.Does that statement make sense in your head or are you trying to take theh piss out me, i not sure. Ill answer it seriously anyway. "The Declaration also had a remarkably brazen statement about exploiting the resources of Iraq. It said that the economy of Iraq, which means its oil resources, must be open to foreign investment, "especially American investments." That comes close to a pronouncement that we invaded you so that we can control your country and have privileged access to your resources" There not all US corporations BP has more British owners than American (i think its like nearly 50/50) as after the oil spill peopel were angry at Britain but they were saying theres almost as many US owners. The fact is the US invaded and conquered the conuntry, they dont neeed to pull the wool over anyone eyes, whose gona stop them, Russia, China. Of course everything didnt go to the US but you can be sure after risking the invation most of did. Britain also got nice taste i imagine. I dont see how any of this argument makes sense to you so im not gona write anymore. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
OK, let me put it into simple words for you. America needs oil. America doesn't want the oil to stop flowing. As long as those who control the oil keep the oil flowing, America doesn't care. It's kinda like if someone owned and controlled your air supply. You need air. You don't want to be deprived of air. As long as the person(s) who controls the air keep supplying you with air, you don't care. As soon as your air supply is threatened, you will do something about it. I kinda hope that happens because then I can say that you are evil and your intentions are to steal the air you breathe from those who own it. That's about as simple as I can explain it. If you are still having a hard time understanding that concept, I suggest you sober up before trying to read it again ;) Side: True
1
point
Ya i agree with you. But the thing you cant seem to realise is it does care, it likes when a few corrupt middle eastern rulers (you know like the ones your country has propped up all over thr region) decide to sell their countries most precious resource at the expense of the people while your country benefits massively. Why do think they have such a resence in the midlle east. I admit keeping the oil flowing is very important but keeping flowing in the places they want it to flow, while also keeping it at a reasonble price are just as important. You see what you cant seem to fit into that ignorant American skull of yours is this: Ok, lets assume your country wasnt a bully of a nation that only looked out for its own strategic interests. Then by right they wouldnt be involved in the middle east at all. I mean why would they, its got nothing to do with them, its not American land, is it.Or are you so nationalistic that you think you have the right to be there.
I mean you can talk about stability and helping people shed a brutal dictator if it helps you to sleep and to swallow the propaganda (you call it News e.g. CNN) you are subjected to but its quite clear from whats going on in the ivory coast (whose main export is grain i think) at the moment that your country couldnt give a fuck about who is killed across the seas. But you see if they didnt illegally impose themselves on the people's of the middle east, and steal their oil (effectively thats what goes on) then it could be used as a bargining chip against them. If they dont invade these places and prop up regimes that serve their interests then they risk losing control in the region. If they lost control in the middle east then they run the risk of losing the title of worlds dominant superpower. Does that not make sense to you. I mean oil is effectively the greatest resource mankind has, it is the greatest, most usefull material possession in existence. I'm not even gona go into the reasons why.Now do you disagree that in order to maintain your place as the richest, most powerful, most wasteful, most self-indulgent, most egotistical country you need to make sure you have more control over the oil than people whose countries its present in. This isnt a difficult concept you just dont seem to want to acknooledge that you country could have such blatant self interested disregard for freedom, justice etc. etc. because you bought into all the lies they feed you. So, i know your not gona listen to me, your not gona listen to anyone, your not gona try and find any info. that doesnt agree with your view of the world. YOur just sit in your big house and continue to live your delusion because it brings you alot of comfort, just like Religion is the opiate of the masses. That's about as simple as I can explain it. If you are still having a hard time understanding that concept, I suggest you sober up before trying to read it again ;) Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Does it not make sense to you that it is the oppressive Middle Eastern governments that steal the oil? I mean, think about for one second. Gaddafi (or however you spell his name) sells his countries oil and gives the money to..... himself. Now, America can help, but if it helps then people claim that we are doing it to steal their oil. And if it doesn't help then they say that the U.S. doesn't care enough about the plight of the Libyan people. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. So.... we won't ;) Side: True
1
point
Yes Joe that makes perfect sense to me, i dont construct my belief system around a denial of reality. Yes, the corrupt middle Eastern governments steal their peoples oil, yes, of course they do. Now if you examine all of the worst tyrannical, oppressive middle eastern regimes in existence for the last 50-60yrs and you look at who propped them (sometimes with cia coup other times more sophisticated means, ,sometimes they just funded and aided them) made sure they were well in control of their populaitons by supplying them with modern weapons and planes etc. Then if you look at which country outside the middle east was the major beneficiary of this oil stealing, you will begin to realise why i have been ranting for so long about your country. How does this not make sense to you, you are denying reality, any sane person will tell you that Washington has propped up the most brtual regimes in that region for the last 50-60yrs, it all started with the Sha in Iran. It is only now that the peopel are rejecting this totalitarian rule. "America can help" again you demonstrate how much of a reality denier you are. The US doesent give a fuck about the Libyan people or the Iraqis people or any other people they fucked with and the documentary record proves it. Jesus Christ your deluded. You must really lap up all that propaganda they feed you. I mean fuckin hell man, you bought into all of it to the extent that anyone who tells you any different is a terrorist. If a society ever exists that uses puppies and kittens for baby food i imagine you'd be the person throwing them into the meat grinder. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Thats because being a liberal and a conservative in your country is essentially the samne thing. Its funny you bring that up actually, Noam Chomsky wrtoe a book about politics in the US, one of his conclusions was that liberal and conservative or republican and democrat are just two side of the same coin. Sure they give you Americans the impression that they're opposite ends of the spectrum, that if you dont beleive in one you must beleive in the other because their views are so far apart that they represent the full rabge of views. Nothing could be further from the truth, they both exist within a very narrow narrow politcal spectrum, sure Bush was probably to the extreme side of this and Obama is probably close to the other but it really doesnt matter they dont disagree on the fundamental issues you be sure of that i.e. imperialism, serving the eiltes, keeping the rich, ric and the poor, poor etc. etc. So, of course i wouldnt agree with them. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
keeping the rich, ric and the poor, poor Well now wait a minute.... how can we reverse those roles? You can't make a poor person in charge of something a rich person is in charge of. For example, you can't replace Donald Trump with my maid. For one, she's a woman and for another, she doesn't know how to do what he does; that's why she's a maid. Similarly, I wouldn't want Donald doing her job. He doesn't have the legs for it. What planet are you from that you think that getting rid of rich people and replacing them with poor people is a good thing? ;) Side: True
1
point
I'm sorry its hard for you to comprehend Joe i really am. You rich people like maney and they want more of it and they dont give a fuck whether millions die thanks to their actions e.g. the Iraq war. You can be sure that war has lined the pockets vof many of your elites be they government officials be they corporate officials. I'm taking about equality for people. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
OK, the reason I'm in favor of that war is because it only killed one short of a million. I mean, if it had really been one million, then I could see your point but it was only 999,999 people. So...., I guess you're the fanatic for trying to add that last one guy in there ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
My country and all the others isnt responsible for nearly the kind of death and carnage that yours has been associated with. Look, if this were the year 1905 and you were getting this message via morse code or somthing i wouldnt be mentioning the US at all, i would be ranting about th eBritish empire. Not that your country never did anything wrong prior to the last 50-60 yrs but befroe then its imperialism was fairly restricted. Lots of other countries do very bad things, if i was conversing with a Chinese person i wouldnt e talking about the US crimes, you can be sure of that. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Not really, i see a opnion i disagree with and if that person is capable of a proper debate i engage them on the issue. You see what you dont realise is you were willing to conduct a proper debate, i guess because you knew you didnt have a clue what you were talking about, theres only so many washington propaganda sound bites you can recite before a person realises there no substance behind anything your saying, you knew that and just decide to resort to ridicule. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Yes Al Jazeera is one the many news outlets i i watch ive stated that before, i dont base my views on it but i can tell you its lot more reliable than any of the mainstream news station currently in operation in your country, but hey if your to blind to see that fair enough. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Al Jazeera is just spinning the news another way. They are providing a different propaganda. You should only focus on any potential for real change. News organizations cater the news to their intended audience. The news has become more and more entertainment than news. Real change comes when people realize that they need to accept reality for what it is and take control of their destiny. The Egyptian people are on the cusp of achieving this. I hope they succeed. The Libyans have a long, hard, uphill battle. I hope they get to where the Egyptians are now. I hope every middle eastern country gets to the point the Egyptians are now. Hell, Even America can't control that many countries. They can't set up that many puppet governments. They can't attack that many countries. But whatever happens, I bet America will be blamed ;) Side: True
1
point
Firstly, America wont get blamed for anything if their not guilty of anything thats what you dont seem to realise, America gets criticised for very good reasons, if you werent such a powerful country you wouldnt have gotten aaway with many of things you've done over the last few decades, but hey when your a big bully of a nation like America you can do whatever you want i suppose e.g. supporting Isreal in their genocide against the palestian people the despite the fact the enitre world is against them and the UN has already resolved the conflict based on 1967 borders yet Isreal contiue to evict palestians from their land and build settlements etc. etc. Secondly, you'd be very surpirsed how many puppet governments your country can install. Your countries sphere of influenece reaches far and wide, do you know that you have military bases in nearly every country in the world. Thirdly, i dont know if you've been following up on the whole Egyptian situation but i cacn tell it is far from resloved, yes they may be ahead of Libya but the old regime is still effectively in control and you can be sure your government doesnt want that to change. Libya is also very different, there is still a lot of support there for Quaddafi, its been portrayed in Western Media and Al Jazeera that its an entirely one sided affair (becasue they dont like Quaddafi) but its more like civil than anything else. Fourthly, "News organizations cater the news to their intended audience." I agree with this completely, every news station is biased in some direction, they're all serving some agenda but you should realise that some are far far far far far far far far far worse than others i.e. American News "The news has become more and more entertainment than news." Again, this really is onely in your country, its stemmed from the degradation of your culture. Your entire population is addicted to cultual garbage, they're not interested in real news anymore they'd rather hear what Charlie Sheen is up to today.This is exactly what the elites (i.e. corporations and big business wants it) Don't try to deny this, im not saying everyone in your country is like this, im just saying an average they are and whenever they feel they need some actual news they have Bill o Reilly or Wolf Blitzer or some other propagandist to fill their heads with shit that they lap up cause it tells them exactly what they want to hear, namely that their country is the greatest in the world, that your country and army is a force for good and all the other nationalistic shit they use to drum up support for war or keep you all fearful of a few arabs with rocket launchers running around the pakistany mountains. It some ridiculous when you really think about, as if a few arabs could ever inflict any real damage to your nation, yet your news is able to make millions across your cpountry fearful at the mear mention of terrorists deespite the fact the your the biggest ones in existence. Finally, Al Jezeera does have an agenda, i acknowledge this but to say that they are providing a different kind of propaganda is (at in my mind) totally false. I can completely understand why you would say this, i mean they expose things that wouldnt even a get a mention on your news e.g. the palestian papers that showed the palestians were willing to give up so much more land than anyone would ever have thought and still Isreal refused. Now you can call this propaganda but i can tell you from watching both stations that Al Jazeera is infinitely more fair and balanced than your most fair and balanced news station. You might disagree with them because you view them as being anti american but i challenge you to watch your nesw for a few weeks and then watch there, the difference is stark, again im not saying there perfect but compared to American News there fuckin infallable. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Ya thats it Joe everyone who critisises America is an unpatriotic fanatic, i mean they'd have to be if there speaking out against the red, white and blue. So if some middle eastern boy loses his entire family in a bombing raid hes obviously should still be completely behind America, i mean they were just trying to protect his family, it was acccident. You know i deliberately refrained from calling you a fanatic instead i thought i throw down some of the good work your country has done in the hope that you'd check out for yourself and at the very least acknowledge how different it is to the lies your constantly exposed to but calling me a fanatic, i mean Jesus. Thats like a Nazi calling some Jew an anti-semite but again i dont expect to see that or acknowledge it, you just keep living in your comfortabe bubble just remember you may live long enough to see it burst. Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
supporting Isreal in their genocide against the palestian people the despite the fact the enitre world is against them I love it when you manage to put more than one stupid thing in one sentence ;) If Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people AND America is helping them AND they have the atom bomb, then WHY is it taking so long? AND, if THE ENTIRE WORLD is against Israel, why are they unable to do anything about it ;) But yeah, they shouldn't be building those settlements. Oh well. ;) Side: True
1
point
My God your stupid. So, you think it should be happening quicker, well any one who knows the true intent of Isreal knows that they would love to get it over and done with as quick as possible, theres just one problem, the enitre world is watching them. And i dont think they'd like it (especially their arab neighbours) if they suddenyl went into the west bank and gaza and forced everyone to leave and killed all those who didnt. I think that would raise a few eyebrows, dont you. Isreal is walking a P.R. tightrope, they know they can get away with alot given US backing but there are limits, like trying to exrterminate all the palestians in one go or force them all force them all from the land straight away, buts its happening. Anyone who follows whats goin on there (you clearly dont) knows its happening. So, for example the settlement freeze that was imposed by Netanyahu at the behest of Obama was very interesting. They got alot of credit for it, its over now but while it was on they effectively couldnt build any new settlements which is the main stubling block to restarting negotations. BUT there was a clause in the agreement to freeze the settlements (PLEASE LOOK THIS UP IF YOU DONT BELEIVE ME) basically it stated that any houses that were under construciton prior to the freeze being imposed could be finished, so what did Isreal do a few weeks before the freeze, i can gauratee you this wasnt reported. They built loads of foundations all over palestian land, lots and lots of foundations cause technically that means the house is under construction. So for the next 10 months they got the PR associated with not building any settlements when in reality they were building as usual, pretty cunning, huh. The entire world is against Isreal acations but i dotn think you realise how much sway your country has, Americas support for Isreal is the main reason the conflict hasnt been settled on the 1976 borders, check it online. For the past 15-20 yrs every year the UN takes a vote typr "peaceful settlement to the isreali palestian conflict" into google every year its the same result the whole world on one side the US and Isreal on the other. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I doubt the whole world cares. If they did care, they would do something about it. Instead, they just pay lip service, "We, the world, are against Israel." Then they get the PR associated with their statement condemning Israel when in reality they don't give a rats ass as usual, pretty cunning, huh? ;) Side: True
1
point
Firstly most of the world does care becasue the plight of the palestian people is probably the single most effective driving force in creating more terrorism. You see i tried to explain with that example previosuly, terrorism doesnt arise based on disagreement on how people should live, i mean im not saying thats impossible but thats the crazy rationalisation you seem to be using for the curernt state of terrorism in the world. What you have to realise is terrorism exists because the terrorists (as you call them, the US or Isrea could never be called terrorists though, obviiously) have very real greivances. They and their peoples have been wronged in a way that you can t even comprehend, this is why terrorism exists. If one single casue had to be sinlged out that would be it. So, the world does care, especially the arab peoples of the middle east.Granted wider europe and asia dont care enough to defy the US, i give you that. But middle eastern people care alot and i honestly think their vioces will be heard when the regimes and have been recently toppled (and others that are goin to be) are replaced by governemnts more commited to enforcing the will of the people. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Are you saying that the majority of Arabs are terrorists waiting for their turn to blow themselves up? Because if that's the case, then maybe we shouldn't be using smart bombs to surgically extract terrorists. Maybe we should just go for the blanket bombing of the whole area ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Secondly, you'd be very surpirsed how many puppet governments your country can install. Your countries sphere of influenece reaches far and wide, do you know that you have military bases in nearly every country in the world. I love it how you make it sound like we can kick ass on the entire planet ;) I mean, if that was true, why don't we just kick the entire planet's ass and take it all for ourselves? Could it be that you are stretching the truth? Maybe just a little? A smidgen? ;) Side: True
1
point
I really wish i were Joe but you really do have massive control in places that are very far from your actual country. I mean think about it Obama was gona build a missil "defense" (ha, fucks sake) system in eastern europe. Basically to intimidate Russian, then Russia threatened to supply Iran with advaced anti-air weapons that would effectively eliminate the ability to fly into Iran and destroy all there nuclear sites without suffering a single loss. I mena you dont have bases in China or Russia so yeah maybe its a slight exaggeration given that those place cover so much of the planet but the comment tstands you have bases all over the place and you have the kind of control that is just unparalled. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
I sorry you have to reduce all these issuese down to the level of playing and simple game and being on the side that wins, personally i find that sad. I honestly am glad to be able to empathise with others and do what i think is right, i may make for a rocky road ill just have to see but i wouldnt traded for your way, never. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
Well if America had nothing to do with Egypt i.e. didnt prop up their dictator and fund his regime with billions i wouldnt really be justified in saying anything about America, would i. I mean seriously. Look in the case of Libya Britain and France are probably more to blame OK are you happy now. The only reason i demonise the US so much is becasue in most siutations they deserve more blame than anyone else, you just need to look at the facts and you will realise it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
The fact is that when there are two opposing views, one will get the upper hand and come out on top, even if it's temporary. You are pissed off because more often than not you are on the side that is opposing America and more often than not America gets the upper hand. I, on the other hand, prefer siding with the winner.... life is too short to always pick the under dog and then be all pissed off when the under dog loses ;) Side: True
1
point
No Joe, i beleive in what i think is right and i base what i think is right and what i wouldnt like to have happen to me, so when i see the palestian people being killed mistreated being denied their huma rights and being forced off their land i side with them because i view that to bo wrong. When i see the UK and America invade a copuntry illegally under false pretences which results in 1 million dead Iraqis i view that as wrong. If the roles were reversed and the Palestians were powerful and were mistreating the Isrealis i would be speaking out against them and if Iraq invaded your country i would speak out against it, im sorry your morals arent that strong. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
NO Joe i would speak out for what i beleive to be wrong, ok. I the hypothetical scenario i described ever became a reality then yes i honestly think i would, obviously i cant say that definitively given that its a complete fabrication but id likem to think i would. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Yes, i know what your saying. My piont of view are far from perfect and probably biased aganst America but im a realist, there biased against America for a reason, now what it really comes down to is do you beleive that more people beleive roughly what i do or what you do. I can tell my friend outside you heavily nationalitic, heavily indoctrinated culture most people will side with me over you. Think what you want about me being a fanatic out side your comfortable imaginary world your the fuckin fanatic, you can bet on it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
What??????????????????? I'm just remember this argument for the next time you are brazen enough to claim that im an idiot,l next you question my competence as a scientist or my ability to construct a coherent arguiment im gone post this comment back to you casue this really says all it needs to say about you my friend. I will admit that one was really bad (even for me). I only realised when i read back over just now. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Thats becasue i wrote i wrote it in about 20 seconds, do you have any idea how faast i write these arguments, i dont come onto this site and spend an hour or more on it like you, i can type in the region of 40 words a minute, dont get wrong im no touch typis as i have to look at the keyboard and it comes out fucked up, but i dont havr the time to go slowly and spell and grammer check what ive written, i simply have far more important matters to attend to. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
No i curerntly engaged in a thesis entitled "performance assessment of the geothermal heating and cooling system" at my colleges biggest most modern building. It involevs analysing the system technically, economcally and environmentally, the building itslef is very modern i.e. it is built with solar panels on the roof, a large geothermal heating and cooling system with teh most modern in comressor technology (i.e. four interfacing scroll compressors) being fed from a shallow aquifer under ground, a modern gas bioler, passive solar design features, vav underfloor ventaliation, heat recvoery wheels all integrated into a computerised building managem,ent system that controls and ergulates the the temperature and humidity in each room of the building. Im trying to develope a cacluation methodology that takes into account that fact that the goe hp sys. alone. The technilcally analysis inviolves analysing the system thermodynamically using enrgy and exergy balances on all system components, the economial analysis involves evoping a cacluation methodolgy that incorprates the technical attributes of the system (i.e. elctrical and mechanically and isentropic efficiencies of all system components, as well as part load usage) in order to calculate the payback time(reuitres prediction of fule prices) and return on investment of the system, then it can be comared to other similar system which have had simialr analysis carried out in order to see how it matches up, it can also be compared to a more conventional fossil fuel system to see how it matches up( in a variety of ways), this can then be connected to a full environmental anlysis invloving the calculate of carbon offsetted by the system wetc etc etc etc etc etc Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
but you should realise that some are far far far far far far far far far worse than others LOL, HAHAHA. Yeah, for me, Al Jazeera is far worse. I know you think that Fox news, CNN and the BBC are far worse but I bet you wouldn't be thinking that if you were forced to live under Sharia law. Hell, I would fire my maid and spend the money to see that instead ;) Side: True
1
point
Your an idiot, an absolute idiot. Fox news is the worst news channel in the world, it should not even be called a news stationist so bad, its ridiculously bad, in fact i have a theory that its made that bad in order to make the other REALLY REALLY BAD stations like CNN look better. BBC is very good, its a well respected station and its subject to the kind of scrutinisation that no mianstream American media is, you just need to realise that your news has become the worst most Biased in the Western world, its a fact, ask anyone outside your country. Seriously people laugh at the quality of your news, most people in Europe wouldnt tolerate news as bad as yours. So, lets take an example, this is really good one. Ok, Sky News, its a British news station and its owned by the media mogul Rupert Murdoch, you know the same guy who owns FOX. Now Sky News is about as bad (in terms of bias, misrepresneting the truth and generally propagating British nationalistic proganda) as it gets in the UK, i mean it really is the most unreliable station in Britain, i know this cause ive wathced it extensively and compared it against the other i.e. BBC, ITV, Channel 4 news. BUT If you compare Britains worst news station (Sky News) to your best (i.e. least biased,most truthful mainstream news station). I dont know the American media well enough to know which the best one but i can gaurantee you without even knowing exactly which mainstream news station is the fairest in your country that its is infinitely worse than Sky News. This is becasue people in europe wouldnt stand for the shit that you Americans consume, you have no idea how nationalistic you are, and thats completely intentional in order to keep people compliant with the actions of the government. Look, BBC is biased, even more so than Russia Today. Al Jazeera is probably as bad as the BBC its just that Am Jezeera has a different agenda, but by inlarge when you hear something on both of those news stations you can rely on it, i wouldnt say the same about any American station, the intentionally misrepresent the news in a way that is incomparable to any other stations. Your news is probably more comparable to the news Libyans are getting on their tv screens at the moment. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I dont know the American media well enough to know which the best one but i can gaurantee you without even knowing exactly which mainstream news station is the fairest in your country that its is infinitely worse than Sky News. OK, so here's yet another example were you acknowledge that you do NOT know but that will not stop you from deciding what the truth really is. And you call yourself a scientist? Where did you get your degree; a cracker Jacks box ;) Side: True
1
point
I knew you were going to use that against me rather than even take what i was saying seriously. even as i writing it i thinking i should just exclude it cause you being the person that you are, you were obviously gona throw it back at me. I have watched a lot of Ameircan news, ok. FOX, CNN and ABC mainly but i dont need to have the kind of intimate knowledge of American news media that i do for say Irish and english news media that i know inside out. Look the information i present here is well known, most intellectual in your country will and have openly acknowledged that the quality of your news is terrible, they may disagree on the reasons e.g. i beleive its due to corporate ownership. You can say oh hees just a fanatic our news is no worse or no more biased than any other countries but you couldnt be any more wrong if you tried. BTW yes i do call my slef a scientist and id just want to let you know that i base my opinion on the gernal concensus, as i said its well known amongst intellectuals how the quality of American news has degraded to an all time low, im sorry your too blind to do what a scientist would do (you know go and find these things out for yourslef like i have). Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
the information i present here is well known, most intellectual in your country will and have openly acknowledged that the quality of your news is terrible Really? Well known? Most intellectuals in my country have acknowledged that our news suck? as i said its well known amongst intellectuals how the quality of American news has degraded to an all time low It's well known? Among intellectuals? Well..... I better listen to you.... I mean, intellectuals!!! Really??? Wow!!! ;) Side: True
1
point
Ya man intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals, intellectuals. No you got, you got it, your catchin on ,your catchin on. Go look it up, ill suggest Noam Chomskys Manufacturing Consent one more time in the vain hope that you may bother to at least watch the movie and put all your biased nationalistic beleifs to the test. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
No its not, to be honest i dont care for Michael Moore a great deal, not that i dont agree with him a large number of thing but his sensationalistic producing and distorting of the facts hinders the message hes trying to put out there. Noam Chomsky is all about facts he doesnt try to dress them up, he lets them speak for themselves, look the moive isnt even made by him, it was produced by a canadian indepenedent film company, hes never even seen it. If you Michael Moore and then watch that moive i gaurantee you they will seem incomparable in content. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
OK, so let me say back to you what I think you just said. You don't like Fox news, Sky news, nor any American news organization because they don't support your world view. In fact, the only news organization that comes even close to supporting your world view is Al Jazeera. But even Al Jazeera thinks your world view is too fanatical to support ;) Side: True
1
point
No you couldnt be more wrong if you tried. Ok let me narrow this down for you right, all news is biased in some direction, this i acknowledge, every news outlet has a agenda, but Aerican news is so far removed from real news that its become cartoonish and isnt taken seriously by anyone with any slight bit of intelligence (sorry Joe that excludes you). Now Sky News is bad for Britain, really bad, there as close to an American news station (in how biased and misrepresentative of the truth) as your gona find in Britain. Al Jazeera isnt perfect, neither is France 48 or Russia Today or the BBC but these stations arent deliberately trying to make you beleive in bullshit propaganda like your media. They arent afriad to say whats actually goin on, unlike your media. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
No, watch British news, French News, Russain,News watch anyother mainstream western News. JUST DONT WATCH AMERICAN NEWS. Watch Al Jazeera iof you like just stay away from your own corporate controlled media, ironically John Stewart Daily Show is as close to real mainstream news in your coutnry, thats quite pathetic. Go look up the independent news station Democracy Now based in New York, you'll find their broadcasts on youtube, again this isnt leftist propaganda just fuckin watch it and see what you think. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
What you dont seem to understand is , i do watch American news, ok. Thats why i able to comment on how bad it is, you think id just take some politcal pundits word fot it, come on, give me some fuckin credit please. Democracy Now is not socialist propaganda, it has no socialist agenda at all, in fact to call it that shows just how fuckin ignorant you are, why dont try lookin it up before you pass judgement, or is that just too radical an idea for an indoctrnated American like yourself. Open your fuckin mind man, for once in your life, its not too late. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
What you dont seem to understand is , i do watch American news, ok. You are so full of shit! If you did watch American news then you would know that we are well aware that NATO forces are not in Libya to help the Libyan people achieve democracy, if that was the case Obama would have been first in line. And we are well aware that Obama did nothing while the people of Yemen were being slaughtered last Friday. We are also aware that the Saudi army was called into Bahrain to quell the unrest. The problem is that (even though it is normally a good thing to have an open mind) if your mind is too open, your brains fall out ;) Side: True
1
point
Firstly, please dont apply that Bertrand Russel quote to me, ok. You've probably never even read any of the mans philosophy, have you. So, stop throwing quotes at me that you dont even know the sources of. Thats really insulting, you probably have no idea who Bertrand Russell even is. Now, i dont watch Amerian newws every fuckin day ( to be honest i watch it very little any more, except to analyse its flaws), i prefer to spend my time watching news thats a little bit mroe trustworthy and isnt intentionally trying to deceive me i.e. BBC, France 24, Russia Today or Al Jazeera. Admittedly though Frace 24 and BBC have been pretty biased on the whole Libya issue since they became invloved but theey're still infinitely better than what your exposed to. Now im also well aware that those stories will be covered in some form on your news, everything gets some kind of a mention. Answer me this, did it mention anything about the fact that the weapoms the Saudi and Yemenese amries were using were supplied by YOUR GOVERNMENT. Did theymention that?????????????????????, and how much time did they actually get on the air, i wonder. Your just too blind to see that difference, i never expected you to take my word for the outlandish claims ive made but i honestly thought curiosity would get the better of you and you'd check some for yourself. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
I think your mind is so closed that it cut the blood circulaton to your brain and nervous system off a long time, therefore you lost the ability to think or formulate your own opinions, then you beleived what all the others drones beleive, you subject your self to the indocrination you call american media and you beleived all of it wholeheartedly becsaue your a big red blooded american and anyone who fucks with your red white and blue is gona get a can of WHOOP ASS OPEN UP ON THEM PRONTO, RIGHT JOE. And you think im the idiot, fuckin hell, thats no even funny its just sad. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Your just saying that to piss me off arent you. Look i pride myself on finding out the facts and not resting on my lorals, you dont. You im a fanatic because i dont speak the same propaganda your used to hearing but your the one whose comfortable in his ignorance, your the one whose not willing to change his views even though you know they may be wrong Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Again feel i have to remind you that you began the mud slinging match, not me, i was perfectly willing to engage you in a proper debate, but you choose to be a smart ass from the beginning cause all you wanted to do was wind me up and make stupid jokes, and now your trying to claim that its all my fault. If you argue like an idiot (i.e. ridiculing the others arguments, not taking anything they seriously etc.etc.) thats how the other person will treat you, but im sure you know that.Why dont check out some of the other debates ive had on this site beleive me they havent been conducted like this one. Ive debated people with views similar or more extreme than yours and i havent called them an idiot because they were willing to me respect and to give my piont of view respect, and i did likewise. Its called a debate, not that you'd know what thats is. You come on this site for s few shits and giggles so please dont try to lecture me. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
you choose to be a smart ass from the beginning cause all you wanted to do was wind me up and make stupid jokes. I've been on this site for what... 3 years? Yeah that's what I do. You should have done your research and realized, "Oh, this is joe being joe." ;) I can't help it if you can't take joke. ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
So the fact that Western countries (particularly the US) take a special interest in the middle east by interfering with their governments (i.e. propping up dictators) and invading their countries has nothing to do with the fact that the area contains the largest known and most easily accessible oil reseves (which happens to be the greatest material asset on the planet) known to man. And saying as much makes me a lunatic, fuckin hell. So do you deny that your country has propped up and supported brutal dictators in the region for the last 50-60 yrs, casue if you do, you can check it out quite easily. Nobody in your government is trying to denny it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Finally you admitted it. Yes they will, they'll do anything to keep it flowing in their direction a cheap price, and that means supporting and propping up brutal dictators that repress and slaughter their own people, that means starting illegal wars that cost million of people their lives, are you blind that your incapable of seeing the knock on effects of wanting to control the oil supply. Look at what you just said and think about what your government has done to keep the oil flowing. If you can condone their actions your a twisted little man. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
It's not that I condone it. it is that there's little I can do about it because it has been going on since the beginning of time because that is human nature. As soon as America's spot in the sun fades and someone else takes her place, they will do the same thing. Nothing will ever change. When you are 50, you will look back and say, "Hmmm, just as joe predicted. I accomplished nothing and nothing has changed." What makes you think that the human race is worth saving? Haven't you been listening to the news ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Now do you disagree that in order to maintain your place as the richest, most powerful, most wasteful, most self-indulgent, most egotistical country you need to make sure you have more control over the oil than people whose countries its present in. Are you talking about the Iranian bourse? ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
"In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upwardly mobile—and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. We owe that to ourselves and our crippled self-image as something better than a nation of panicked sheep." Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
Oh common CB. You love getting fucked by anyone other than a real woman so that you can say, "Oh woe be onto me for the world has wronged me." I mean, you're such a dram queen, "The world is coming to an end! America is the great Satan and Obama the Anti-Christ!" ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
Fair enough then. I do enjoy this site. I enjoy it for the pleasure I get from being joe ;) Look, don't take it personally. This is what I've been doing for 3 years. This is what I enjoy. If you don't enjoy it, stop responding. The more you respond, the more I enjoy it. This is how I get my kicks. You are enabling me to get my kicks and enjoy myself. I guess I have to say thanks ;) I wish I cared about this "America is the largest terrorist organization on this planet" thing but I don't. I just like making jokes. I guess part of the problem is that no matter how much you (or anyone else says it) it doesn't change a thing. So I just don't get worked up about it. I mean, I bet you could find a bunch of disenfranchised middle eastern men who will get all worked up about it, but I don't. In a sense we are the same. You want me to get worked up over your "America is the largest terrorist organization on this planet" and I just want you to get worked up over whatever bullshit I send your way ;) Now, most people would say that I shouldn't have said that because you may not want to play anymore, but I think you enjoy me giving you a hard time..... mainly because it gives you a chance to rant some more ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
it is widely acknowledged as being desired by the majority of the population. Democracy at its finest.Ill get those surveys when i have some free time, i think they were from the John Hopkins University I'm a scientist and an engineer and this guy that writes lots of books and gets quoted quite often and hasn't been proven wrong says that the majority of the people do NOT want Obama Care. I'll get those surveys when I have some free time, i think they were from the John Hopkins University. Besides, you're not an American so what do you know of my country, only what your government propaganda tells you ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
2
points
Ya, you and your other friend are totally correct. I dont how how to argue. I got my masters in chemical and biopharmaceutical engineering out of complete pity. They saw rolling around on the floor like the mongoloid that i am, then just as my carer was cleaning the shit out of my nappy they said i could have a pretend one to hang on my wall. I devised a extremely slick plan to get my current masters in sustainable energy by pity as well. I gona eat my own shit and smear it on the walls until the stench is so powerful that the only way for me to leave the building is for them to give me the degree. So, your friends in Iraq have computers do they, ya their really part of that poverty stricken majority arent they, they really do speak for the majority like you originally proposed.They have it really hard, just like you have it really hard for an american being able to afford not to care about free healthcare or the fact that your education system is shit. I find it rich that your criticizing my arguments, you wouldnt know a proper argument if it crawled up your rectum and lays eggs there, you dont know how a proper argument is constructed.I'm quite prepared to admit that this wasnt my best and i threw it donw in a hurry but thats only becaue ive realised that there no piont in puttin any effort into my arguments with you, you dont repond to them in the way a person who knows how to argure would i.e. mutual respect along with heavy analysis of the person sources of info. (this is key) and the arguements and conclusions the person reaches based on that info. I dont expect you to understand your incapable of understanding but you could at least try not to be such a hyprocrite. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
I got my masters in chemical and biopharmaceutical engineering out of complete pity. Well..., I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, your spelling and grammar are horrendous ;) I devised a extremely slick plan to get my current masters in sustainable energy by pity as well. Actually, all liberal schools are giving those away. They want as many people as possible to point to and say, "Look, they are scientists and they believe in Global Warming!" The libs need as many people on their side as possible ;) your education system is shit. Yes, our educational system is so poor that I was able to come here from another country and learn grammar and how to spell and how to become one of the few capable of affording his own healthcare. I mean, how good of an education can you claim to have if you can't even afford to take care of yourself? ive realised that there no piont in puttin any effort into my arguments with you, What a bunch of crap. You have NOT realized any such thing. You are still trying to get me to agree with you and to look at your evidence. mutual respect You have no idea what mutual respect is. Why don't you count the number of times you called me names and then count the number of times I have responded in kind. you could at least try not to be such a hyprocrite. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black ;) Side: True
1
point
Firstly, im an engineer, we dont get paid to write essays.Look, in my final year of college, me and 3 other people (my design project group) designed a chemical plant from a lab scale patent as pfizer keep their Lipitor process a sectret but distribute the lab scale synthesis.The four of us made up the top of nthe class.We had to design it techinally,economically,environmentally Not even gona bother. Not even gona bother Yes im still responding but im responding with off the cuff opinions at this stage, im not thinking a great deal about what im writing and im not wasting time getting sources of info.Of course im still tryin to get you to agree, why would stop, if you knew me you'd know the only way to get me to stop is to stop responding to me.My point is that i care so little at this stage, that im really not trying that hard. Why dont you count the number of times you argued with sensational propaganda that had no intellectual content. Why do count the no. of times i made a claim that you refused to check out cause of being afraid it may be true. It takes two to tango(i included my self in that comment), your just a guilty, in fact your more guitly casue you were the one who initiated the mud slinging match to begin with, whether you realised it or not. Ok, how have i been hypocritical, im not saying i havent (to be honest i probably have on certain points)but honestly id like you to piont out the instances.I think there are a hell of a lot more on your side. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
Why dont you ask your Iraqis friends what they think about the slow genocide and inhuman mistreatment of the Palestian people, the ask them what they the majority of Iraq think about (as they clearly dont speak for the majority) and then aask them what the wider middle east thinks about it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
I actually kind of know why they whine Joe, it the same reason you be whinning if you were subjected to that kind of tretment. Id say its very easy to hold the opinions you do from your position, if only you were capable of looking at things from another persons perspective. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
No, I would figure a way around the situation. Whining is for pussies. It accomplishes nothing. Any engineer worth his salt knows that sitting around wishing that the world was different is fruitless. Engineers don't wish the world was different and moan about it. Real engineers change the world. Side: True
1
point
Again, i have to ask, how would you know what a real engineer would do. I am one, i know that most engineers are motivated by money and success, i dont include myself in that for the simple reason that i have rejected many lucrative job oppurtunties based soley on the fact that they were for the pharmaceutical industry. Side: Wait..., What? No!
1
point
1
point
1
point
Absolutely nothing. I like it just the way it is. I learned the rules and then I figured out how to make the best of it, without whining and complaining. I would hate it if the rules changed now because I would have to start all over again. You want to take the easy way out. You want the rules to change to benefit you instead of working within the system. Why work towards something when you can just take it away from someone else. ;) Side: True
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
1
point
Our founding fathers were not liberal...not in the sense of the term today, they were libertarian. They did not believe in big government, and believed in states rights, the liberals do not believe in states rights and fight for a centralized government. The progressives hijacked this term and morphed it into something the founding fathers would not recognize in the early 1900's to further their agenda. Side: True
1
point
|
Oh look, a straw man. These aren't general liberal answers, but rather someone attempting to read between the lines and forming the depiction based on their own personal bias'. This is no more accurate than the similarly themed video that pitted a liberal against a tea party member and made the tea partier look like a blithering idiot. All political ideologies have people like this. No group has the monopoly on either idiocy or rationality. Side: Wait..., What? No!
I wish whoever made those videos just posted the transcripts instead of running them through some stupid text-to-speech program. I quit watching around 1 minute into the 12 minute video, bored by the unanimated animations and slow monotonous speaking >.< Though I doubt I'd be interested in reading them anyway... the conversation is so artificial that even conservatives will find it a ridiculous misrepresentation of liberal arguments if they think about it. Side: Wait..., What? No!
|
