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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

90
65
Well.... for starters... Absolutely nothing
Debate Score:155
Arguments:131
Total Votes:168
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 Well.... for starters... (75)
 
 Absolutely nothing (56)

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A Palestinian State come fall... what can go wrong?

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/12/opinion/la-oe-marzook-palestine-20110612

Mousa Abu Marzook is one of the founders of Hamas and its deputy political bureau chief. He was born in Gaza and lived in the United States for 14 years.... and he's NOT happy.

Well.... for starters...

Side Score: 90
VS.

Absolutely nothing

Side Score: 65
2 points

This Arab Spring may end up in Nuclear Winter .

Side: Well.... for starters...
2 points

Regardless of what goes wrong, we know who will find a way of blaming America for it.

Side: Well.... for starters...
garry77777(1794) Disputed
1 point

I place blame on no one who doesnt deserve it and ive always found that insinuation of yours that i blame america based on some weird personal hatred to be highly insulting, heres the answer to your question (please watch its only 7 mins long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_v5fwW9fE

Side: Absolutely nothing
Hellno(17756) Disputed
1 point

First of all, I didn't ask a question???

Second, I could have been talking about Ax... why assume I was talking about you? Also, if I was talking about Ax, I know he wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it! Geesh Gary! Lighten up!

Side: Well.... for starters...

No matter what happens next fall, someone is NOT going to be happy ;)

Side: Well.... for starters...
1 point

We can only hope that both sides walk away from the table equally unhappy.

Side: Well.... for starters...
1 point

Hey, that's what a good compromise is, right?

Side: Well.... for starters...
1 point

USA gets involved...

Side: Well.... for starters...

What could go wrong, hmmmm, lets see, the Isrealis will launch an attack on the palestinians when the claim what they are legally entitled to under international law, they'll be backed 100% by the US, they'll probably slaughter thousands, and then blame it on the palestians just like they did in the so called "Gaza war" more correctly known as the Gaza massacre.

The fact is no matter what your opinion on Palestine you have to acknowklege that the USA is a completely unfair broker in making a lasting peace. The Palestinian peoplpe are at their wits end, they have no options but to go to the UN, for the last 20 yrs they have negotiated, they have made extraordinary concessions (see palestian papers:http://english.aljazeera.net/palestinepapers/ ), more than they ever had to under international law, more than any ordinary palestian would have agreed to as their government (Fatah) was in the posket of the US, Isrela still refused and have continually expanded their settlements illegally on palestian land, this is a fact, and now they are being told by Isreal and the USA that they must come back to the negotiating table while settlements are still being constructed at this very moment, the USA and Isreal just want the palestians to acquiesce while they slowly eradicate their homeland.

People in the West are finally taking notice of these crimes, they are finally seeing through Isreals massive propaganda machine despite western media being totally biased in favour of Isreal, they are finally stting up and taking notice of the crimes against humanity being perpetrated by the Isrealis, even if their government aren't.

Side: Well.... for starters...
churchmouse(328) Disputed
0 points

Another Palestinian sympathizer and Jew hater. You probably also are a Democrat and love Obama. LOL

To address your points.

As I said,,this conflict dates back to Abraham. Arabs hate Jews, it would not matter where Jews live, Islam wants them DEAD, GONE. Not surprising as their Holy book says to slay them where ever you find them....the unbeliever. Israelis live in terror on a daily basis. Since the failure of the Oslo peace process in 2000....they have been killed by the hundreds by suicide bombers, driveby shootings....acts of terrorism. I read somewhere that the deaths total over 24,000 Israelis. So by 9-11 standards that act of terrorism was nothing in comparison to what Israelis live with.

They want all the land not some of it. Funny that Israel won the land in a war. How many countries give back land after a war?

Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri said, "They want peace and security, and they want to occupy our land. It;s impossible."

Arafat had this to say in Sweden after he received his peace prize. (What a joke)

“Within five years we will have 6-7 million Arabs living on the West Bank and Jerusalem. All Palestinian Arabs will be welcomed by us. If the Jews can import all kinds of Ethiopians, Russians, Uzbekians, and Ukrainians as Jews we can import all kinds of Arabs. We plan to ILIMINATE THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND ESTABLISH A PALESTINIAN STATE. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. Jews will not want to live among Arabs… They will give up their dwellings and leave for the United States. We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."

Dr. Atallah Abu al-SAbh who is a writer for the Hamas newspaper wrote this discussing anthrax.

“If I may give you a word of advice, enter the air of those “symbols” (America and Israel), the water faucets from which they drink and the pens with which they draft their traps and conspiracies against the wretched peoples…turn bodies of the tyrants into matches slowly and gradually.”

Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammed, the London based founder of Hizb al-Tahrir (Islamic Liberation Party) said in an interview: “American people must reconsider their foreign policy or their children will be sent back to them in coffins (especially because of the stationing of troops in the Middle East)…(the existence of Israel) is a crime. Israel must be removed….Our duty is to work to establish an Islamic state anywhere in the world, even in Britain.”

Muhammed Mustagab in his column for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Usbu described his reaction to watching the world trade center towers fall: "(Those moments of) exquisite, incandescent hell were the most beautiful and precious of my life…..The generations of the past, and with Allahs help, the generations to come, will envy us for having witnessed these images."

Islam a religion of love? LMAO Palestinians....loving people? Come on.........

Two so called moderate Muslim leaders Abduahman Alamoudi who was the President of the American Muslim Council, and Muzammil Saddiqi, spiritual leader of the Islamic society of Orange County. These two clerics were chosen by the U.S administration to represent moderate Islam to the American masses after 9-11. They appeared with Bush as Bush so carelessly stated that Islam was a religion of peace not hate. Both men joined the president three days after the terrorist attack in a televised memorial service at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C, where in fact Saddiqi was given the honor of offering the opening prayer.

BUT............ These so called moderates who were selected to calm us down over Islamic terrorism, were later shown on television days later (Fox News videotape) at a Washington D.C rally supporting terrorist organizations and openly denouncing the United States. This was all caught on TAPE. The media chose not to concentrate on it however......should that surprise us?

I quote Alamoudi,"Hear that Bill Clinton:We ALL are supporters of Hamas. Allahu akbar. I am a supporter of Hizbullah. Anybody supports Hizbullah here?" After these remarks SAddiqi said I quote,"The United States is directly and indirectly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people. If you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come..."

Mufti Ikrama Sabri said, “Jerusalem is a symbol for every Muslim in the world. The claim of the Jews to the right over it is false and we recognize nothing but an ENTIRELY ISLAMIC Jerusalem and under ISLAMIC supervision.”

And you think they are full of love and only want the land? LOL

Side: Absolutely nothing
garry77777(1794) Disputed
2 points

I honestly don't know where to begin with disputing this, your disregard for human suffering and lack of compassion tells me that your far too politcally, ideologically and religiously indoctrinated to accept (or take seriously) anything i write based soley on the fact that it differs from your own views.

That said im going to provide a rebuttal as im not going to let you get away with that hate filled response.

"Another Palestinian sympathizer and Jew hater"

So in your mind just because i sympathise with the plight of the palestian people i am automatically a Jew hater as well. You do realise that from my perspective the two are collectively exhaustive, i find the accusation that i am a Jew hater or an anti-semite of any kind to be highly insulting and based only on your own prejudice. I dont even need to mention the many Jewish organisation's, Isreal organisations, and Jews and Isreal's who oppose the Isreal governments inhuman treatment of the palestian's, but im sure they're Jew haters and anti-semites aswell, just like Jimmy Carter after he wrote the book "Peace not Apartheid.

"You probably also are a Democrat and love Obama. LOL"

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

"As I said,,this conflict dates back to Abraham. Arabs hate Jews, it would not matter where Jews live, Islam wants them DEAD, GONE. Not surprising as their Holy book says to slay them where ever you find them....the unbeliever. Israelis live in terror on a daily basis."

I find this use of religious hatred to be quite disgusting and only serves to demonstrate how unelightened you are.

"Since the failure of the Oslo peace process in 2000....they have been killed by the hundreds by suicide bombers, driveby shootings....acts of terrorism. I read somewhere that the deaths total over 24,000 Israelis. So by 9-11 standards that act of terrorism was nothing in comparison to what Israelis live with.""

How does this argument make sense to you, seriously, watch how i deconstruct it please, if you consider yourself to be even slightly open minded dont dismiss this, and please feel free to question anything i write.

(1)OK, the first thing i take issue with is your assertion that 24,000 Isrealis have been killed, you haven't exactly stated since when (or what the source is), i mean have 24,000 been killed since 1967, since 2000, when??

I tell you what the facts are: Since the 29 spetember 2000 6430 palestians have been killed in the conflict while 1084 Isrelais have been killed, this isnt propaganda, this is sourced from the Isreali human rights organisation B'Tselem i.e.

Source:http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

Heres a United Nations report from 2007 which states pretty much the same thing:

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/CAS_Aug07.pdf

Now im prepared to accept that the numbers aren't everything, imean what about Isreali fear, anxiety etc. etc. Well in order to talk about that you must also talk about Palestian fear and anxiety right, i mean unless you think they are animals incapable of feeling such emotions. lets take the Gaza war as an example, how do you think it felt to have you city bombarded with bombs and white phosphurous (used illegally to burn people (and children to death))?, how do you think it felt for the many families running and cowering in feart with nowhere safe from the bombs (hospitals and even a UN compound were bombed) that were completely leveling their city? How do you think this compares to the rockets amd mortars that Hamas sends out, really id like to know how you reconcile this Isrealis agression with palestian agression.

(2) The second thing i take issue with is your comaparison with 9/11 deaths, why compare it to 9/11, why not compare it to any of the other many examples of atrocities worldwide, why are so fixated on 9/11, it seems that US citizens are unaware of other terrorist attacks other than the one inflicted upon them. Here why not compare it to the 1.2 million Iraqis that have died as a direct result of the US invasion, now you have probably never heard that number before but i assure its the most reliable and respected estimate of Iraqi civilian casualites available.

Source:http://www.jhsph.edu/refugee/publications_tools/iraq/burnham_ORBpoll.html

They want all the land not some of it

How can you say that when they have not yet been given what they are legally entitled to and the fact that even Hamas an orgamnisation im sure you think are evil terrorists (while isreal are saints) have signed up to settling the conflict based on the June 1967 borders

Funny that Israel won the land in a war

Its funny how in one sentence you can show your baltant disregard for international law. Also, i can assure you they wouldn't have won that war had they not been given unlimited military aid by the US, they were supplied with as much of the most advanced and sophisticated weaponry (tanks, helicopters, heavy artillery, plaenes etc.) as they required to win the war, if you don't beleive me go look at the history.

""How many countries give back land after a war?""

Well since that law was enacted by the UN after WW2 all countries have had to abide by it, it was the basis for the first gulf war (which im sure you were in favour of), Isreal is one of the very few exceptions, as they are backed by the worlds dominant imperial power.

""Arafat had this to say in Sweden after he received his peace prize. (What a joke)........

Dr. Atallah Abu al-SAbh who is a writer for the Hamas newspaper wrote this discussing anthrax.......

Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammed, the London based founder of Hizb al-Tahrir (Islamic Liberation Party) said in an interview:......

Muhammed Mustagab in his column for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Usbu described his reaction to watching the world trade center towers fall:"

Why must you use the hateful words of extremists on the side of the palestians to justify your own extreme views? Do you think that words that are just as extreme have not been made on the Isreali side? If so do you want me to provie you with some examples? why can you not see past the words and look at the source of hatred? Do you think it is based only on some raw instinctual hatred of religious proportions or coulr there be something else responsible for it? Please take the time to answer these questions, i would greatly appreciate it.

"Islam a religion of love? LMAO Palestinians....loving people? Come on.........

I have known many people of the Islamic faith and i have also known of many people of the islamic faith none of which claim it to be violent faith, in fact my understanding is that those who consider it to be a violent faith are in the minority on both sides. Also, how can say such a thing about the palestian people and not the Isrealis, can you not see the hypocrisy in that statement.

"BUT............ These so called moderates who were selected to calm us down over Islamic terrorism, were later shown on television days later (Fox News videotape) at a Washington D.C rally supporting terrorist organizations and openly denouncing the United States. This was all caught on TAPE."

Please send me the link for this, i would very much like to see it, also in case you are unaware fox news is not considered by anyone (and mean anyone) with even a basic level of intelligence to be a credible spurce of information. everyone knows everything reported on that news station is pure unadulterated propaganda, often completely based on fiction. It has no credibiliy, none!!!! But you should know this.

"The media chose not to concentrate on it however......should that surprise us?"

Yes it should actually all western media (particularly american) has been lost no oppurtunity to present Islamic hatred and terrorism as the big evil, i ond't by wjhat basis you make that assertion it seems to run contrary to reality.

"We ALL are supporters of Hamas. Allahu akbar. I am a supporter of Hizbullah. Anybody supports Hizbullah here"

why are you incapable of recognising the terrorist acts iof the US, or Isreal, do not realsie that they have committed acts that very few other terrorist organisations can compared to. It seems to me that views are just far too polarised to understand what i mean but i hope you are open to questioning them.

"The United States is directly and indirectly responsible for the plight of the Palestinian people"

This is a perfectly valid statement based on fact and not rhetoric. For the past 20 years the US has consistently blocked a peace settlement from being reached and settled based on the palestian legal entitlement i.e. 1967 borders. This is voted on every year in the UN, every year the result is the same, the US and Isreal on one side the rest of the world on the other but due to the US infuence and veto power they cannot enforece it, were it not for the US inten blokcing this resolution the conflict wouuld have been resolved decades ago, PLEASE INVESTIGATE THIS IF YOU DONT BELEIVE IT.

Heres the report from 2010:

http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/reliefweb_pdf/node-372597.pdf

Heres an explantion of the resolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_v5fwW9fE

"And you think they are full of love and only want the land? LOL"

Now i think the full of hate after having to endure the kind of treament you or i cannot comprehend but i beleive that if they were given their legally entiled homeland they may begin to realise that they have somehting to hold onto, currently they are being effectively extreminated and you would be foolish to think that any people will sit back while their land is being stolen from under them.

Side: Well.... for starters...

hey Joe did you read your own article i.e."At his recent pep rally in Washington, Netanyahu received a hero's welcome from AIPAC and a gushing display of congressional fealty from a roomful of people who heard what they came for but left none the wiser. He characterized the Palestinian economy as "booming," thanks to Israel's "help." It is unclear if this was meant to mock the millions in the Gaza Strip who live in abject poverty with their homes and infrastructure, airport and seaport still shattered from the last Israeli onslaught. And while Netanyahu demands we accept the Jewish state as a precondition for talks, Israel accepts no preconditions itself, especially not with regard to its illegal and universally-condemned settlements. In fact, Zionism has never had any intentions of allowing a Palestinian state—not in 1948, not in 1967, not at Oslo, not at Camp David, and not now."

Side: Well.... for starters...

Cool! So there doesn't seem to be any way to achieve peace. War is the only option. Let's do it. Even if no one is left standing at the end, we would at least put all this bull shit behind us ;)

Side: Well.... for starters...
garry77777(1794) Disputed
1 point

There is another option, respect the rule of law, give the palestians what they are entitled to and end the conflcit peacefully, this would go along way to preventing islamic extremism and preventing a possible WW3, then we'd just have global warming, the energy crisis, the economic crisis to deal, the environmental crisis, the poverty crisis etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum, good luck humanity.

Side: Absolutely nothing
0 points

We have no right as Americans to tell Israel what they can or can't do. Hopefully they will use the resources to protect themselves.

This is a conflict that will never go away. People do not understand this and think it is only an issue over land. This is more complicated than that. This is a religious war, has been and always will be. This is about Abraham, Sarah, Hagar and their children.

The Jews could give away half the land they are on and that would never be enough for the arabs...they want it all and won't stop until the Jews are all dead. This is commandment from Allah. Palestinian goal is the establishment of the Khilafah which is an Islamic state where the ONE RELIGION, is supreme and controls everything...both government and society. Do you think the Palstinians care that Jerusalem as a city is a religious symbol for Judaism and Christianity?

Israel is at war with Islam and yet they treat them and include them in everything. This I just don't get. They even allow arabs into the Israeli parliament. How many Jews serve in the government of the surrounding arab countries? It is only terrorists that Israel targets, and since terrorists love using human shields, civilians often get hit inadvertantly. The only difference is, Israelis specifically target terrorists and its infrastructure, the Palestinian terrorists specifically target civilians. They simply hate the Jews so much that they dont care who gets killed, even their own people.

This conflict will never end.....................

Side: Well.... for starters...
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

We have no right as Americans to tell Israel what they can or can't do.

Yet, we have a right to tell Palestinians? Our unflinching support of Israel I think is part of the problem. The United States has supported Israel for largely religious reasons, it's not right.

Side: Absolutely nothing
churchmouse(328) Disputed
1 point

WE also support other countries as well.

Are you going to look in the eyes of parents who have lost a son in this war and tell them that what their son did...protecting and freeing innocent Muslims from the hands of their own dictators was wrong. Nothing America does is good in the larger scheme of things.....eh?

Side: Well.... for starters...
churchmouse(328) Disputed
0 points

No we have no right to tell them either actually....

Did we have the right to jump in the war to end Hitlers rampage? Should we left weaker countries stand up to tyranny?

Israel is the only DEMOCRATIC....country in the ME. That we should always stand up for. And since 9-11 America has learned a lot about Islam and why it acts the way it does. We are told it is only the minority of Islam a few token radicals ( I read somewhere 1%) who want us dead (Jews, Christians) ...well if that is the case that would be some 18 million muslims. You think they attacked us on 9-11 just because we support Israel.....that is what they would like you to believe. We are the big Satan to them in more ways than Israel. We stand in their way for global worship of Allah. What 9-11 did was to show us that there is an enemy that wants us gone too.

Israel has always been our most dependable ally in the middle east, none other exists. Israel is surrounded by dictators and is surprisingly powerful. You would think that this tiny country whose population is basically shrinking would easily be swallowed up by its enemies who are breeding like rabbits. What is the land mass or tiny Israel compared to all other Muslim countries? Wouldnt you think that someone would take the Palestinians in?

Bottom line.....This issue is not about land ownership but all about a ARab nationalist movement and the religious aims of Islam attempting to eradicate a Jewish presence from the entire map of the Middle East.

For this reason we should help them when asked.

Side: Well.... for starters...
garry77777(1794) Disputed
1 point

"We have no right as Americans to tell Israel what they can or can't do. Hopefully they will use the resources to protect themselves"

You cannot conceal your extremism

"This is a conflict that will never go away. People do not understand this and think it is only an issue over land. This is more complicated than that. This is a religious war, has been and always will be. This is about Abraham, Sarah, Hagar and their children."

You cannot conceal your religious fanatacism.

"The Jews could give away half the land they are on and that would never be enough for the arabs"

And you know this how, oh Abraham, ya i forgot, get a grip on yourself.

"This is commandment from Allah."

Religious fanatacism exists only in the minds of men, as long as there are people like you to perpetuate this hate it will never change.

"This I just don't get. "

Im not surprised.

"and since terrorists love using human shields"

You're right the IDF loves to use Human Shields when they steal Palestian homes for Jewish settlers (i.e. http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1621&CategoryId;=1), but should we be surprised i mean this is what leading Jewsih Rabbis are calling for (i.e. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/leading-rabbi-encourages-idf-soldiers-to-use-palestinian-human-shields-1.320311 )

"civilians often get hit inadvertantly"

I can assure you that very few of those hit are hit inadvertantly but i don't expect someone as indoctrinated as you to accept that.

"the Palestinian terrorists specifically target civilians."

Thats it ya just keep justifying Isrealis terrorism to yourself.

"This conflict will never end....................."

As long as their are a majority of people like you on both sides i completely agree.

Side: Absolutely nothing
-1 points

Where in the world are their Christians killing and murdering those who will not kneel to Christ? If there is terrorism in the world, what one religion is most always present? Islam

Do Christians recruit their own children to be suicide bombers?

What middle eastern country allows free speech, allows a woman to do what she wants without the fear that her head will come off?

Islam a religion of peace? so much so that they use the Palestinian people are pawns...this is true. Why? The goal? WORLDWIDE DOMINATION For whom? THE ONE AND ONLY ALLAH. This view is not shared by radicals but moderates alike. WHY? It says so in their holy book.

You fail to see the real issues....their will never be peace because the Arabs hate Jews...and this is religious whether you like it or not.

You are the Jew hater....so much so you cant even see the truth of the conflict itself.

I gave you examples of what the heads of Islam have said about this issue....and funny but you won't address them.......

Side: Well.... for starters...
garry77777(1794) Disputed
1 point

"Where in the world are their Christians killing and murdering those who will not kneel to Christ"

Well imagine a large percentage of the american army is Chritian and they have been responsible for the death of voer 1.2 million Iraqis by current best estimates i.e. http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/middle_east/iraq/600000_deaths_in_iraq_continuing.htm

Now not all of these people have died at american hands, in fact a massive proportion were probably killed by their own country men but the fact still remains that the burden of responsibility must fall on american shoulders.

"What middle eastern country allows free speech, allows a woman to do what she wants without the fear that her head will come off"

Your country supports the kinds of regimes that champion this, the examples are many but the best and most relevant is Saudi Arabia

"Islam a religion of peace"

Yes i beleive it is, in as much as you can say Christianity is a religion of peace despite the death and destruction that have been carried out in its name.

" The goal? WORLDWIDE DOMINATION "

Sorry i think you are getting confused with your own imperial empire my friend.

"THE ONE AND ONLY ALLAH"

This is just too easy

"This view is not shared by radicals but moderates alike. WHY? It says so in their holy book."

Ya you know the Bible isnt all candy yams and big breasted women riding bareback on unicrons you know.

"You fail to see the real issues"

You fail to see past anything besaides your own hatred and religious and ideological indoctrination.

"You are the Jew hater....so much so you cant even see the truth of the conflict itself."

I treat Jews the same as i would treat any person, i give everyone the same respect and courtesy regradless of there religion, ethinicty, or nationality, i have no grudge against them despite what you so desparately want to beleive so go ahead if it gives you some sense of security in your small minded beleifs.

"I gave you examples of what the heads of Islam have said about this issue....and funny but you won't address them.......

"

I did adress them and i am still waiting for your reply,. also why did you simply post this argument and not dipsute any of mine, you do realise that the only way i will be informed is if you dispute me, or was that your intention all along?

Here is a portion of the rebuke i presented you're clearly unabale to find it (or more likely don't want to), i spent about three hours wrinting it, its the longest argument on this debate by a mile, go seraching thorugh my respones to you and you will find it easily:

"So don't give me crap about my post is all full of hatred."

Your post was full of hatred your just too blind to see that, you think Islam is a religion of hate, and that even the moderates are in favour of terrorism, you think these views are full of hate, what exactly do think is the definition of hate maybe your using somehting different to what im using.

"I provided you WITH FACTUAL STATEMENTS BY THE PALESTINIANS THEMSELVES."

Yes i know you did, i can read and interpret the words you know, and theres no need to shout. So if you think a few off the cuff remarks prove the kind extreme hateful views you espouse then ill provide you with some FACTUAL STATEMENTS BY ISREALIS THEMSELVES:

Isreali foreign minister Tzipi Livni said on Isreali tv after the Gaza massacre:"Israel demonstrated real hooliganism during the course of the recent operation, which I demanded"

Heres some very lovely quotes from Avigdor Lieberman currently Member of the Knesset, Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Prime Minister of Israel :-

"What we state unequivocally is that we are completely opposed to what has been and still is the guiding principle of Israel's foreign policy: 'land for peace' ... There is either 'peace for peace' or the exchange of territory and populations."

2007 - (To an Israeli Arab fellow member of parliament :) "You are an ally in the Knesset of terrorists. I hope that Hamas will take care of you and all the rest once and for all. Don't worry, your day will come."

"If Israel has to deal with the Iranian threat by itself, it can do so."

2006 - Speaking of Israeli Arab legislators who support the Palestinian cause: "The fate of the collaborators in the Knesset will be identical to that of those who collaborated with the Nazis. Collaborators, as well as criminals, were executed after the Nuremberg trials at the end of the World War Two. I hope that will be the fate of collaborators in this house."

Following attacks by Palestian militants: "if it were up to me I would notify the Palestinian Authority that tomorrow at ten in the morning we would bomb all their places of business in Ramallah, for example."

In response to the proposal to release some of the many palestian people (Hamas officials in this case) being held in Isreali jails without trial as a gesture: ""It would be better to drown these prisoners in the Dead Sea if possible, since that's the lowest point in the world,"

I read in one of your arguments that Isreal is the only democracy in the ME, please read this and say that again: "http://www.rense.com/general93/inst.htm"

And here are some lovely quotes from some of the leading rabbis in Isreal:- This is a message encouraging the IDF to use Palestian civilians as human from Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira from the West Bank settlement: ""According to true Jewish values, your lives come before those of the enemy, whether he is a soldier or a civilian under protection. Therefore, you are forbidden from endangering your own life for the sake of the enemy, not even for a civilian," Shapira declared."

THIS MAYBE THE REASON THE IDF ARE INCREASING THE NUMBER OF CIVILIAN HUMAN SHIELDS (PARTICULARLY CHILDREN) THEY USE IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, IF YOU DONT BELEIVE THIS STATEMENT HERES THE PROOF, ITS NOT FROM SOME BIASED ARTICLE ITS FROM A HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANISATION, 15 CASES HAVE BEEN DOCUMENT SINCE 2004:"http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1621&CategoryId;=1"

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in the run-up to the latest round of Israeli-Palestinian "peace negotiations" (notice they are in parenthesis) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef wished that "all the nasty people who hate Israel, like Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas], vanish from our world".

Rabbis Mordechai Eliyahu a leading figure in Isreali religious thought during the Gaza massacre urged the IDF not to refrain from killing palestian children in roder to save IDF lives, heres are some direct quotes "'If they don't stop after we kill 100,' said the rabbi, 'then we must kill a thousand. And if they do not stop after we kill a thousand, then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop, we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to stop them'.", ""I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

Feel free to check the veracity of these statements if you take issue with any of them, ill give you the sources if you think any are false, or taken out of context.

Side: Absolutely nothing
churchmouse(328) Disputed
1 point

Israel is being attacked by people who want them dead. Islam wants to eradicate Jews period. It is not about living sharing and respecting. This is about survival of a race. How many Jews on earth...as opposed to Muslims?

You sympathize and your allegiance is with Islam, with the Palestinians and I think that you believe this is over land. It might be on the surface but that is not what lies underneath.

You just blamed Christians for wars. What about Islam? They kill their own children, their own people for an ideal. And you say they are peaceful? ARe they taught to love their enemy? What does Allah say for them to do?

Now I will discuss Christianity and what the scriptures say any day of the week...but this discussion is about Islam and what the Koran says.

Where does it say in the Koran that they should love their enemy? Have you even read the book? The fact is that Muhammed is looked upon them as a moral example....yet he did not even live up to the basic laws he layed down for everyone else. How many wives did he have? The Koran limits how many a man can marry, only four. Muhammed however thought this law did not pertain to him.

I am puzzled as to why you think Islam is so great. Islam encompasses every dimension of life. That means in Islamic countries there is no separation of church and state. Islam takes over homes, society, countries.........IT CONTROLS EVERYTHING. Do you think they would tolerate and accept your liberal opinions? They do not tolerate secularism. If Islam is in the majority........the minority have a difficult time. You talk about me being closed minded...........every been to the Middle East?

And tell me where in the world Christians are convincing, brainwashing their kids to be suicide bombers?

"2.191": And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.”

"5.33": The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement....

Sura 8:12 When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

"9.123": O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

"9.3": And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

"9.5": So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

What happens to those who change their religion?

"69.30": Lay hold on him, then put a chain on him,

"69.31": Then cast him into the burning fire,

"69.32": Then thrust him into a chain the length of which is seventy cubits.

"69.33": Surely he did not believe in Allah, the Great,

"69.34": Nor did he urge the feeding of the poor.

"69.35": Therefore he has not here today a true friend,

"69.36": Nor any food except refuse,

"69.37": Which none but the wrongdoers eat.

Peaceful?

"...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).

Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73).

Peaceful?

What is your definition of peace? LOL

And I am not saying all Muslims believe in terrorism. Those living in democratic countries....are bound by the laws there. Their hands are tied and they can't live like those in Islamic countries do.

The Koran teaches that Islam supercedes both Judism and Christianity and therefore Islam cant tolerate another religion sharing political rule. The Koran says, kill the infidel.

Jesus in no way shape or form would have said this…..kill those who do not believe.

Islam has always been a religion of violence. Muslims commit acts of terrorism IN OBEDIENCE to the word of Muhammed and when Christians do it, it is in opposition to Christ. Christ said to love even your enemy. If people don't do this, they are breaking Gods commandment to love.

Jesus preached the opposite. He did not want people to love him, to come to him, accepting him because of force, but because of faith. In Christianity there is freedom. Freedom to accept Christ or reject him.

There is hatred on both sides......that is a fact. But I believe the Jews despite what many you post here.....have tried to live along side an enemy who wants them dead.

They want worldwide domination.......for allah.

Side: Well.... for starters...
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