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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

19
33
Yeah, lets kill something! No, don't hurt me!
Debate Score:52
Arguments:27
Total Votes:75
More Stats

Argument Ratio

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 Yeah, lets kill something! (11)
 
 No, don't hurt me! (16)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(39806) pic



Are we over due for a revolution?

What to do with dissidents?

Yeah, lets kill something!

Side Score: 19
VS.

No, don't hurt me!

Side Score: 33
2 points

i reckon if we did all we'd need to do is burn parliament house an they'd get the idea. but it would be fun to crucify k.ruddy...or is that the sadistic part of me...either way i vote LETS GO FOR IT!

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
2 points

I've often wondered if we're experiencing the long lines of events that would lead to some kind of revolt. We are ever increasingly becoming disaffected with government, and we are learning more and more about how little our voice counts against the loud voice of corporations. Misguided wars, unending "theats" of terrorism, propaganda running rampant in government and the media. It seems, at times, that we are becoming more and more repressed by those in power. Historically when a people are repressed, eventually they push back. I just sometimes wonder if that's where we're heading.

Thoughts?

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
Loudacris(912) Disputed
1 point

Thanks to the Constitution, I think we are able to revolt through voting, rather than through violence. I agree that this may not always be the case (i.e. it all goes out the window if the Constitution is trampled). However, one could argue that there have been several revolutions in modern times: the 20's, the 60's and, probably, today.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
HGrey87(750) Disputed
2 points

They were rebelling against problems that were visible in everyday life. The ones our current generation object to are those that are generally hidden from the populace, that are silently screwing us like a ninja's dick.

cough

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
altarion(1955) Disputed
1 point

The constitution was founded on the principle that the people's voice will be heard. But how often does this apply to modern day revolutions? We have this "Green Revolution" going on right now, but what is it inflicting on the government? Practically nothing! All its doing, as far as I am concerned, is giving coporate industries a chance to create products that they claim to be "Eco-Friendly." But the government as a whole has done nothing significant to appeal to this upcoming revolution and I think that it is time that the people took up arms and made the government acknowledge that this is happening and they need to do something about it! And as for voting, what good does that do if the popular vote doesn't count for anything?!?! Everyone knows that the only vote that matters is that of the state representatives! So the whole foundation of "revolting through voting" doesn't really count for anything at all! So. . . YEAH! LETS KILL SOMETHING!

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
HGrey87(750) Disputed
1 point

They were rebelling against problems that were visible in everyday life. The ones our current generation object to are those that are generally hidden from the populace, that are silently screwing us like a ninja's dick.

cough

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!

I think the US should have since Wilson. But people should revolt habitually every century whether or not it's necessary, just for good measure.

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!

Plus habitual revolution would make life a little more interesting.

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
1 point

with as much coruprution as we have and the fact that no polioticians is going to change it someone has to act. We will not last another 200 years the way we are going.

Side: overthow the government

Perhaps a return to Monarchism? With me as king and Joe as the court jester? Deviant, of course, would be my sage.

Side: Yeah, lets kill something!
-4 points
7 points

Revolution as a violent uprising against oppression should be the last resort for people who have absolutely no other means of reform. I think we have a very long way to go before we run out of options. The fact that we can openly discuss this topic without being tracked down by the NSA is evidence that we don't have it that bad. Look at the rest of the world; look at Myanmar and Zimbabwe and then talk about how our government is repressive. I'm not denying that U.S. policies both domestic and foreign are pissing on our constitution, I'm just saying we're a lot better off than Burma.

The biggest problem we have here is complacency. Obviously, CD users are interested in current events and what's going on in the world to a certain extent. Unfortunately, most of the populace doesn't care a whole lot. Voter turnout is usually around 50% for federal elections, and much less for state and local. I read somewhere that one in five Americans couldn't even name Bush and Gore as the 2000 presidential nominees. This is why organized interest groups and business lobbies have more influence than we do, because they care about their issues and harangue legislators to get what they want. Half of us can't even get to the polling station?

A revolution in a halfway distracted society is just an isolated act of domestic terrorism. They usually lead to crap governments anyway.

Edit: This debate is filed under comedy? :-/

Side: No, don't hurt me!
4 points

I agree. we do not need violence. we are not being ridiculously oppressed by the government and therefore there is no need for us to start a revolution for no reason.

Besides, we're getting new president, and who knows, things might turn for the better [;

Side: No, don't hurt me!
2 points

A revolution in a halfway distracted society is just an isolated act of domestic terrorism.

This is one of the wisest points I've seen in a long time. Write more of this.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
1 point

Let's go be citizens. I want to be able to say that I've done something.

Side: No, don't hurt me!

I didn't think people would take me seriously and i didn't want the NSA after me ;)

Side: No, don't hurt me!
4 points

According to Crane Brinton's "Anatomy of Revolution", and my feelings...

CONDITIONS WHICH SEEM TO BE PRESENT AS CAUSES OF MAJOR REVOLUTIONS:

1. People from all social classes are discontented

Because of the war, the economy, healthcare, etc....................[√]

2. People feel restless and held down by unacceptable restrictions in society, religion, the economy or the government...............[√]

3. People are hopeful about the future, but they are being forced to accept less than they had hoped for...............[√]

4. People are beginning to think of themselves as belonging to a social class, and there is a growing bitterness between social classes

I don't feel this, does anyone else?...........[ ]

5. The social classes closest to one another are the most hostile.

Again, this isn't apparent to me. ............[ ]

6. The scholars and thinkers give up on the way their society operates.

I do hear from scholars that things are not well... does this count? ........[ ]

7. The government does not respond to the needs of its society

I would say it does to a certain extent, but there is a lot that it doesn't..........[√]

8. The leaders of the government and the ruling class begin to doubt themselves. Some join with the opposition groups..............[√]

9. The government is unable to get enough support from any group to save itself.

I don't know about this so much...........[ ]

10. The government cannot organize its finances correctly and is either going bankrupt or trying to tax heavily and unjustly.

heavily and unjustly? I would have to say they aren't taxing enough, but that's me, "the communist".............[ ]

THAT REVOLUTIONS SEEM TO TAKE:

1. Impossible demands made of government which, if granted, would mean its end.

Does globalization and war mongering for the sake of "democracy" and oil count as an impossible demand? I seem to think so, in our current situation........[√]

2. Unsuccessful government attempts to suppress revolutionaries.

Does the media count as "government", if so, then yes............[√]

3. Revolutionaries gain power and seem united.

I haven't seen this, unless you count ANON (lol) and Ron Paul fans..........[ ]

4. Once in power, revolutionaries begin to quarrel among themselves, and unity begins to dissolve............[ ]

5. The moderates gain the leadership but fail to satisfy those who insist on further changes.

We'll see a few years after Oboma..............[ ]

6. Power is gained by progressively more radical groups until finally a lunatic fringe gains almost complete control

Now I'm confused, is this the Bush Administration?..............[√?]

7. A strong man emerges and assumes great power

Wait, and then this is... Obama?.............[√?]

8. The extremists try to create a "heaven on earth" by introducing their whole program and by punishing all their opponents.

Obama's "change"... and trials of Bush for war crimes?..........[√?]

9. A period of terror occurs.

eh.......idk....................[ ]

10. Moderate groups regain power. The revolution is over................[ ]

I don't think we're over due, but I do think if things don't change, and I mean a lot of things including how people live out their lives and contribute as American citizens, there will no doubt be one within our lifetime.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
1 point

Great post, but I feel some more of these should be checked.

1. People from all social classes are discontented

Bush still "only" has a 71% disapproval rating. There are still people who like what he's doing. I don't think 1 should be checked, but I also don't think it should be a requisite for revolution. I don't think it's possible for all social classes to be discontent.

4. People are beginning to think of themselves as belonging to a social class, and there is a growing bitterness between social classes

This is arguably true. Do you feel you can relate to CEO's, Senators, etc? Like they are working for your interests? That's a tiny slice of society, but it's technically a social class. And the wealth gap is only growing. What about rednecks and gangsters? Wouldn't you say there's growing enmity from the middle class against them?

5. The social classes closest to one another are the most hostile.

Look at Los Angeles: Black and Latino gangs are killing each other all the time. Unfortunately, they're not shooting up Beverly Hills. I can't say my knowledge of classes is detailed enough to give an educated answer to this. It's probably easiest if people present their own (counter)examples, because I can't think of much. but I'm inclined to check #5.

6. The scholars and thinkers give up on the way their society operates.

Shit, I couldn't provide the links, but I've read plenty of scholars who say a democracy constituted of uneducated pop-culture zombies isn't the way to go.

7. The government does not respond to the needs of its society

√√√√√

8. The leaders of the government and the ruling class begin to doubt themselves. Some join with the opposition groups

I haven't seen any of this. Examples?

9. The government is unable to get enough support from any group to save itself.

K, I don't think Brinton thought through this list that much.

10. The government cannot organize its finances correctly and is either going bankrupt or trying to tax heavily and unjustly.

Well, Brad, by some accounts our currency is collapsing. Even if it's not, I believe this has been some of the fastest inflation in American history, these past 8 years. I'm wondering if this isn't some kind of strategy, though, because no government is incompetent enough to handle things this badly, in light of this much evidence. Perhaps our collapsing currency will pull the rug out from under our enemies, who depend on it? It's possible our own recovery would be faster. But it's also very likely that even if this is an intentional maneuver, only the top 2% would be left unfazed.

I'm all about more taxes too, as a side note. Somehow they've become a dirty word in America, and that's how we've been left in the dust in education and health care; meanwhile, the countries with the highest tax rates have not only the highest standards of living, but the happiest people. When our public arena of debate doesn't consider that the utmost measure of a country's success, we're being lied to for someone else's profit.

2. Unsuccessful government attempts to suppress revolutionaries.

Explain? I haven't seen any serious attempts on the parts of revolutionaries. But I have seen the FALCON raids, and Halliburton's nationwide detention facilities being built. They're prepared for suppression; revolutionaries are not.

We'll see a few years after Oboma..............[ ]

This will not be a revolution. Obama would not have gotten as far as he did without being corporate-approved. He will be more of the same, in a different style. His "change" is mostly a token gesture. Expect disappointment in results and intent.

Now I'm confused, is this the Bush Administration?..............[√?]

Actually, that comment says more than you probably think. In a sense, if any revolution has taken place, it was done by Bush's admin and its backers. Not all revolutions are popular, or for the people. Although I guess this is more of a political coup.

7. A strong man emerges and assumes great power

Wait, and then this is... Obama?.............[√?]

Nope, still Bush.

8. The extremists try to create a "heaven on earth" by introducing their whole program and by punishing all their opponents.

Obama's "change"... and trials of Bush for war crimes?..........[√?]

Firing attorneys who challenge the GOP? This is Bush again.

9. A period of terror occurs.

eh.......idk....................[ ]

This is now. It began with the terrorist attacks. Let's forget who's behind it, that's moot at this point. What matters is that the threat of further attacks has fueled a lot of leniency for the past few years' changes. The period of terror, or "evoking a terrifying internal or external enemy" (Die Juden, the Commies, or the A-rab tairists) is a major symptom of fascism.

"Too long; Didn't read:" First we should recognize that a revolution has already occurred, in a sense. Corporate interests have turned our government into a money-laundering operation. In simplest terms: take over the government, create allies in the military-industrial complex and the Federal Reserve. Create ass-loads of money, and funnel it into the war machine. Defense contractors and oil barons profit insanely, ahead the speed of monetary inflation. As a result, the rich are richer, we are poorer.

Well, my point is a bit more complex than this. Perhaps I'll write more if prompted, but for now I'm done.

Side: No, don't hurt me!

I only favor your argument because I like those check boxes. How did you do that?

Side: No, don't hurt me!
1 point

Øn ™: Ωptión + v ≈ √

Side: No, don't hurt me!
0 points

✔ Google for check mark unicode.

✔ Somewhere on the search results should be a check mark.

✔ Copy and paste

♥ The same procedure works for other symbols too.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
2 points

the way america started is much more socialist and less free than how we started.

we aren't even a capitalist country. there is no free market and free enterprise, and there definitely is no equality through the eyes of the government (take from the rich and give to the poor).

if anything, the revolution will start on the far right anarchist side and lead onto the other ideologues. but right now, we're alright. most americans can live with what we have now, but lets say Obama and his even more socialist views take place, this will eventually lead to a revolution. Americans aren't built for socialism, and when we finally reach a fully centralized government (hopefully the guns won't be banned by then) there will be a revolution. Obama will be the beginning of it.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
1 point

No but the library called and said your books are overdue. You radical you! You know how to live dangerously!

Side: No, don't hurt me!
0 points

I dont particularly care for dying.

Side: No, don't hurt me!
-5 points