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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


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Debate Score:108
Arguments:98
Total Votes:111
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 Calling a fetus a parasite is the first step to condoning abortion. (88)

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joecavalry(39806) pic



Calling a fetus a parasite is the first step to condoning abortion.

The Nazis called Jews "rats" in order to make killing Jews more palatable.

That tactic is alive an well in the pro-abortion camp.  Their argument is that you are only killing a parasite, a clump of cells.  The reason they want to create this illusion is so that you don't feel bad about making that "choice."  Why would you want to give anyone a parasite, or a clump of cells, to care for and nurture?  Just "terminate" it.

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This is NOT a "For/Against Debate" because the title and description of this debate are accurate.

Yes..., if you want to have an abortion, then by all means..., go right ahead. I will not lift a finger to stop you. But don't be hypocritical and call it what it is..., the selfish destruction of life.

Have a nice day ;)

1 point

Are you a vegan, joe ?

I believe that there is a place for all of God's creatures...., right next to the smash potatoes and gravy ;)

Does that answer your question?

I have been pretty patient with a lot of abortion debates. Even though i think it should be avoided when possible, i understand there are times when it may be considered. Still no matter the circumstances, whether it is right or wrong, it is still tragic. By going so far as to dismiss the fetus as a parasite (when there are an abundant reasons why that is a incorrect use of the term) is cruel and unnecessary. As i read some of the arguments that said the fetus was a parasite, i was shocked by how many of them appeared to harbor varying degrees of hatred and disdain towards the unborn.

The tactic used by the Nazis is very effective. Once you dehumanize something..., the unnecessary, cruel, tragedy..., the hatred and disdain...., soon follows. ;)

2 points

As if you didn't know already (or I should hope), the two are not analogous. A fetus can actually be biologically classed as a parasite, whereas Jews cannot be classed as rats.

I don't see why people get all butthurt over it. It's just a word we use to distinguish things. You might as well get pissed off over the word "bacteria" or something.

The definition of parasitism is "a relationship between two species of plants or animals in which one benefits at the expense of the other, sometimes without killing it." (Encyclopedia Britannica) not the same species. While the fetus may be at a different stage of life than a full grown human, it is still a human and thus not part of a separate species.

joecavalry(39806) Clarified
1 point

I'm sorry...., I forgot my smiley ;)

Implying that there is one universal definition for a word.

I mean, I can play that too if I want.

From Biology online: An organism that obtains nourishment and shelter on another organism. Fetus matches this.

From Thefreedictionary.com: Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host. Fetus matches this.

From Oxford dictionary: an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other’s expense: Fetus matches this.

I could go on, but you get the point. Definitions are not universal, which is why I said a fetus can be classed as a parasite, not that it is. And like I said, parasite is a word like any other. Hell, most of society could be classed as parasitic somehow. It's just a word, and any connotations are made by the pro-life party, not the pro-choice party.

Holy shit. I just had a serious exchange with Uncle Joe. The Mayans were right.

Cynical(1948) Disputed
0 points

A fetus isn't a human.

In a sense yes, in order to kill another human without much static, you have to do one of these three things:

1. Do it secretly

2. Make it seem as if the human has committed a crime (regardless of if its true or not)

3. Make the other human, a non-person. This has been done in almost every case of genocide and slavery.

1 point

The life is not actually a life, and is only a life when it is capable of independant thought. It is, by means, a cluster of unspecified cells, and by ways, a parasite.

So says you. Abortion is a selfish destruction of life. ;)

Elvira(3446) Clarified
1 point

Can we rephrase that to potential life? And have selfish in a positive way- as in sensible?

It cannot be labeled a parasite because...,

The definition of parasitism is "a relationship between two species of plants or animals in which one benefits at the expense of the other, sometimes without killing it." (Encyclopedia Britannica) not the same species. While the fetus may be at a different stage of life than a full grown human, it is still a human and thus not part of a separate species.

Elvira(3446) Clarified
1 point

It could be the literal parasite- in the dictionary definition, and I need to sleep.

lupusFati(790) Disputed
1 point

I see, so that's how you justify murder then. I find your own definition to be... lacking.

Life:

Noun

1. The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional...

2. Living things and their activity

I should point out that existence is a synonym for life.

The fetus has the capacity for growth, both physical and mental. I'm unclear on what your definition of 'independent thought' is... that is to say, what defines an independent thought, and at what stage in development is it first possible?

Also how do you justify post-birth abortions, aka infanticide?

The first step to condoning something thats already condoned? How can you re-condone something?

You don't think fetuses were being labeled as parasites before abortion became legal? ;)

Calling the jews "rats" was simply demeaning them and just to make them feel bad. It didnt make killing them easier. They couldve called them pretty princesses and killed them just as easily.

We dont call pre-abortion fetuses "parasite" to demean them or make it easier to abort. Its actually a very accurate label for them.

Dehumanizing your enemy is a tactic used by governments to get their people to go along. Google it ;)

It is NOT an accurate term.

The definition of parasitism is "a relationship between two species of plants or animals in which one benefits at the expense of the other, sometimes without killing it." (Encyclopedia Britannica) not the same species. While the fetus may be at a different stage of life than a full grown human, it is still a human and thus not part of a separate species.

1 point

I disagree with this statement. It may be a step on the road but it is not the first.

Selfishness and a lack of love are the first steps, imho. Hatred, in other words.

We don't have to create the "illusion" that a zygote is a clump of cells; that's just what it is. It lacks any defining features other than a mass of tissue and blood.

joecavalry(39806) Clarified
2 points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygote

A zygote, is the initial cell formed when two gamete cells are joined by means of sexual reproduction. In multicellular organisms, it is the earliest developmental stage of the embryo.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/zygote

The cell formed by the union of two gametes, especially a fertilized ovum before cleavage.

A zygote is NOT a clump of cells.

ChuckHades(3197) Clarified
1 point

Er... yes, yes it is. All multi-celled organisms are a clump of cells.. A gamete is a cell. Two or more gametes = clump of cells. Two or more diploids = clump of cells. In the case of humans, 50 trillion diploids = clump of cells.

No defining features? You mean like splitting and replicating? ;)

1 point

No, I mean like lungs and personality and a brain and consciousness and bones and a face and thought and stuff like that.

1 point

One could say the same about calling Pro-Choice advocates baby killers.............

GuitaristDog(2548) Clarified
1 point

People who are pro-choice are not baby killers, they are just uninformed. The doctors are the killers, not the parents or the voters who elected politicians to keep it legal.

Akulakhan(2985) Disputed
1 point

I'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Pro-choice people are not uninformed, they have a different opinion than yourself is all.

0 points

While you might not agree with the connotation of parasite, it is biologically speaking correct. A parasite is defined as an organism that lives off another without any benefit to the host. Fetus' gain all their nutrients and an environment to live from the mother, and biologically give nothing back. Again you might not agree with the negative connotation of the word parasite, but biologically it is accurate.

3 points

No, deffinately not.

You say a parasite provides no bennift to it's host, yet among the basic life processes is the ability to reproduce and to continue one's genetic characteristics in the population. Without the fetus, there would be no reproduction.

Also, a parasite is an organism that engages in is a parasitism-based. the definition of parasitism is a "relationship between two species of plants or animals in which one benefits at the expense of the other, sometimes without killing it." (Encyclopedia Britannica) not the same species. While the fetus may be at a different stage of life than a full grown human, it is still a human and thus not part of a separate species.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/443191/parasitism

You can not stress this enough so I'm going to help.

The definition of parasitism is "a relationship between two species of plants or animals in which one benefits at the expense of the other, sometimes without killing it." (Encyclopedia Britannica) not the same species. While the fetus may be at a different stage of life than a full grown human, it is still a human and thus not part of a separate species. ;)

lupusFati(790) Disputed
2 points

A fetus is itself the gift back to the mother. Without the fetus there is no child, without the ability to produce children there is no human race. Also, a parasite is not the same species as it's host.

It's also a bit sickening when children are looked upon as a parasite. At least a lion lets his children be born before he eats them.