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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


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Debate Score:25
Arguments:18
Total Votes:27
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 Is there a liberal out there among you that can explain this apparent contradiction? (17)

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joecavalry(39790) pic



Is there a liberal out there among you that can explain this apparent contradiction?

 

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The brother has a good point..., why are liberals so darn greedy ;)

There is no liberal that can explain this contradiction because this doublethink is what outlines their beliefs.

Thomas Sowell is brilliant.

American liberals are about as far removed from liberalism, as are American republicans from republicanism. What originated as serious political division, has descended into a grotesque parody of Robin Hood.

I am confident that Hamilton and Jefferson, by so many matters divided, would, if they were to see it, be united in disappointment.

1 point

It's a false premise.

Social programs don't "take other people's money" any more than your car insurance does.

When it is greed is when you want to take advantage of all of the roads, schools, and the education of the workforce of America, but then bitch and moan when you're asked to pay your fair share.

Joe is "taking" just as much of other people's money as someone making minimum wage.

I for example, get more from my hard work than say, someone flipping burgers.

Unlike Joe and his retarded logic though, I'm aware that I don't work any harder than the guy flipping burgers.

I'm also aware that we need people to flip burgers.

And I accept that someone making $7.50 an hour deserves, because we need them to do that job, to have some breaks since capitalism alone is not sufficient to take care of them, or their children.

You see, Joe is like the selfish child who is given a box of toys then told by his parents to share with his sister and brother.

But once he's alone he starts pouting and stomping his feet "those are my TOYS! I earned those TOYS."

Not realizing of course it was his parents who earned them, along with his parents parents, and so on.

And all the Toys we have in America are the result of our society, working together, and paying toward the future.

Unlike Joe and his retarded logic though, I'm aware that I don't work any harder than the guy flipping burgers.

I'm also aware that we need people to flip burgers.

And I accept that someone making $7.50 an hour deserves, because we need them to do that job, to have some breaks since capitalism alone is not sufficient to take care of them, or their children.

I don't completely disagree with you, but I see where the opposition is coming from.

Would society be more likely to crumble without burger-flippers, or doctors? Doctors, right? So by the same logic of value to society having some influence in deserving a break, doctors might feel even more entitled to a break than burger-flippers. Then factor in that the doctors break comes at the expense of no one, while the burger-flippers break comes and must come from other people, the doctor included, and you can see why people get touchy about the subject. Or at least I can.

I also feel that stepping in to provide for people is, in a sense, not allowing capitalism to do its job, or to function as it would without intervention. If we do indeed need burger-flippers in order for society to function, then the wage of the job will be enough for the person working it to live off of. If it isn't, nobody would be able to fill the position because they would presumably be dead in a ditch somewhere, and society will crumble. If companies and employers all know that employees can count on a source apart from their income in order to live, there is no strain (in a capitalistic sense) on the employers or companies to raise the wage or institute the benefits that the welfare system compensates for.

I found it easier to up-vote you than to argue with David. Keep it up and I'll keep up-voting you and down-voting him. Just for the lolz ;)

2 points

Social programs don't "take other people's money" any more than your car insurance does.

Social programs is an example of taking other people's money because it is the involuntary exchange between government and oneself whereas car insurance is voluntary exchange between two parties.

When it is greed is when you want to take advantage of all of the roads, schools, and the education of the workforce of America, but then bitch and moan when you're asked to pay your fair share.

Just in case if you don't know, private citizens pay the government to build the roads and schools, so goods and other services have to exist before this can happen since government services are not market driven. Stupid as society is, we apparently trust government to provide these services.

And all the Toys we have in America are the result of our society, working together, and paying toward the future.

True, but it wasn't by consuming from government spending, it was from saving and investing.

I found it easier to down vote you ;)

Because the amount of income you receive is not directly proportional to the amount of work you do. A farmer who works all day cleaning, lifting, caring for animals, maintaining equipment, nurturing crops, but only does so for a very small income (as most farmers do), works harder than a public school toff who has inherited millions from his deceased father's company. The farmer might be on 20k for ten hours of various forms of labour a day, but the Eton boy might only have to go to a meeting every week and earn 500k just for inheriting the company.

I wouldn't consider myself a liberal, I would say I'm more of a classical anarchist, but I believe that property can't exist without coercion, and that acquiring property through coercion is theft, therefore property is theft, therefore, redistributive taxation is redistribution of stolen property.

Oh, and, don't forget, even if you do believe in property, life and liberty come first. I'd rather steal from the rich than watch the poor die.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Aren't you concerned about over population? The reason we have global warming in the first place is because of the over population of the world. You are also contributing to the gap between the rich and the poor. By letting poor people live, their numbers swell thus skewing the gap between the rich and the poor. If there were less poor people, the gap would be smaller. You are so selfish ;)

anachronist(889) Disputed
1 point

So it's wrong to take money from people who didn't necessarily earn it, but it's fine to let people die by withholding help from those who didn't necessarily earn their problems? Great logic there Joe.

So basically you want the freedom to let everyone else die?

1 point

even if you do believe in property, life and liberty come first.

Untrue. The ability to own property(that is to say money, shelter, sustenance, etc) is a prerequisite for value of life and liberty. It takes property to exercise one's right to liberty. It takes property and liberty to fulfill the value of the right to life. Take for example the slaves of the US's past. Life alone does not(and can not) result in an existence where individuals can meet their utility.

1 point

Greed is lust after things that are not necessary like a selfish man acquires more than what he needs then instead of enjoying his own fruits for any other purpose than himself want beyond his own means of providing his self justifies deciet and wrong doing against all others to sustain a want and not a need . robbed by greed of self worth. like he said said want to keep, then want to take.

So..., people who want to lower their taxes are not greedy..., right?

NATDADDY(9) Clarified
1 point

elections decide who what and how much to tax not my job. taxpayers arent greedy paying taxes is taking care of less fotunate sick elderly roads schools law enforcement etc. contributing to society, the wealthy have jobs so you want upper class, however when crisis hits tax on all economic groups should apply ,so thw wealthy not contributing is like being paid under the table or able to work but rather draw a check. an could be useful to society and country you watch it drown and say not my problem, that greed goes on up the ladder till it consumes even the wealthy