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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

82
58
The one true religion is: Just try to be good.
Debate Score:140
Arguments:154
Total Votes:145
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 The one true religion is: (74)
 
 Just try to be good. (46)

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Is there a right religion or is it OK to just try to be good?

The one true religion is:

Side Score: 82
VS.

Just try to be good.

Side Score: 58
2 points

This scripture prophesy also have a cluster of prophesies that would need to be fullfilled for each to be fulfilled.

So prophetic intrusion by God in His Word, takes predictions to prophesy, which is predictions based on possibility, to prophesy - pre-written history, which is complicated.

But it also knits prophesies together in clusters like cells, building history.

Complicating even miracles of prophesy to clusters of prophesies ALL needing to be fullfilled for the next in a cluster.

If you really look at prophesy, and realize it's difference from "predictions"

Then you realize prophesy is like layers, with many prophesies knit together like cells all dependent on each other for each individual fulfillment, I think it's a greater feat than cells mutating and accidentally on purpose resulting in intellegent design!

My argument is God has proven Himself through history, as the Bible was being written.

Can you show me how it's not detailed in prophesy with an accuracy as if history was knit together, as your cells in evolution?

And can you show me any historical documentations of the Bible that is riddled with inaccuracies?

Another Prophesy:

Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion

(Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10).

Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to 13th power.)

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http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible

Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to the 13th power.)

http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible

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Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

My time traveling aliens are an explanation for cluster prophesies. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

If you follow a religion, you are creating a system whereby any act of selflessness is an act towards a selfish goal of eternal bliss of some kind.

This means that every time you are selfless, another person is being selfish to accept your selfless act. This in turn means you have ensure they are more likely to go to hell or to suffer in whatever way your religion states that bad people do

Side: The one true religion is:
luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

Would you be willing to give an example of a particular religion that does this?

Side: The one true religion is:
instig8or(3308) Disputed
1 point

Christianity: Being selfless sends you to heaven. Being selfish (accepting selflessness) sends you to hell.

Buddhism: Karma. Your karmic debt increases the more you allow others to be good to you. The true Buddhist is willing to suffer very much for the sake of reaching zero karmic debt upon death (doesn't go into negatives, so it's very easy to gain debt) Only those with zero upon death will go to nirvana others will be reborn as some creature (goes as basic as bacterium).

Hinduism: Dharma. Unlike Karma, can go into negatives. The lower your Dharmic debt upon death, the 'richer' or 'better off' you are reincarnated. Hindus can only be reincarnated up or down the food chain if they have positive Dharmic debt upon death (up) or negative (down). If they abused humans in particular, they will be reborn as a victim of the exact form of abuse or something very close to its severity.

Judaism: Hell same as Christianity and Islam but unlike Christianity and Islam, in Judaism there is no heaven. You are either in purgatory (basically obsolete) or in hell until you have 'suffered enough' and then get the reward of actually dying.

Islam: Identical afterlife system to Christianity, differs in the exact rewards in heaven and also in what gets you there.

Jainism: In Jainism, there is no hell. Unlike Buddhism and Hinduism there is no 'punishment' for being evil. Instead there is some magical eternal gain you get from being good that you simply should strive for, it's almost their currency so to speak. You can't spend it though... Once you do evil you have given up your magical bliss and should try your best to gain it again.

Sikhism: Identical system to Hinduism but in Sikhism it only applies to human beings and you can't be reborn as an animal.

Side: The one true religion is:
SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

Even outside of religion, No action is truly Altruistic. It's a numbers game, If I save a close relative, I'm still basically passing on my genetics more than if I don't save that member. If I spread my excess resources, I gain favor with my community. attention and a flow of chemicals saying "I'm A "good" person"

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Religion serves to strengthen ever present morality. if a God knows what you do in the dark, then no evil will take place to any person who truely believes that God, (Or Big brother) is watching.

Side: Just try to be good.
instig8or(3308) Disputed
1 point

Just because it's not possible doesn't mean you shouldn't strive towards it.

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

I would say that the evidence points to Christianity being the one true religion

Side: The one true religion is:
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Which evidence?

Side: The one true religion is:
luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

Things like the moral argument and cosmological argument as well as prophecies that are in the bible

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

All I know is that the God in the old testament is a wrathful God and the God in the new testament is a kinder, gentler, God. I also know that the Jews claim to be the chosen people and Christians appear to have hijacked the Jewish religion, added Jesus into the mix and claimed that anyone can be saved, not just the chosen. So..., I wouldn't bet my life on it. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

How did you come to all these conclusions that you came to?

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

Well, there is no 'one true religion'.

Most people need a reason to be good, i.e., punishment if they're bad, thus man made laws and reward if they're good, i.e, go to heaven and sit on the right side of God, or, go to heaven and enjoy the exhausting but highly pleasurable activity of servicing 17 virgins, or, whatever.

As the influence of religion wanes, well Christianity at any rate, so the crime rates soar and the jails are bulging to overflowing. If it appears to be more rewarding to be bad, and no clear advantage for being good, most people will take the the former option. Why wouldn't they?

''Good'' has different interpretations. I knew someone who shot dead his mother-in-law from a distance of 700 yards. Yes, he was a ''good'' shot, but was he a ''good'' person?

Not so long back as the churches were crammed with the praying, hymn singing, coughing and farting faithful the landed gentry and powerful merchants reaped the bounty of the land and exploited the poorly shod, close on starvation working classes.

The secret to being bad is to it within the law, i.e., tax avoidance as opposed to tax evasion, note Apple and Google for instance. Exploitation disguised as creating employment.

In Europe if you travel the towns and cities on the Mediterranean you'll wonder in awe at the 1000s of multi million £/$ yachts and pleasure craft moored in the countless marinas. It's probably even more so in America. I am certain that the owners of these vessels are, in the main, double dealing scoundrels who have been, ''good'' at staying one step ahead of the posse'.

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

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There are very strong arguments of God's existence, and of Biblical accuracy, and credibility.

I have found that what atheist want as proof is their defense for denial. God won't appease them because if you give them every reason to consider at least an investigation, their choice often is they really don't want to know.

No matter what you show them.

Best you can do is give them every argument to their objections and hopefully the light goes on.

I also know that as atheism grows, as Jesus says the last days love will wax cold. Light and Salt, without light it's dark, without salt foods loose flavor an in some foods salt keep foods from rotting.

Below is a short video clip I'd recommend. And this goes into a posting from an atheist that shows the downside of atheism.

LAnd we can see why Jesus said this last days sign would be present. And it is very present, it's even blindly present.

People don't recognize it in themselves, and they barely recognize it in others.

So as we switch the Jews scream "Release Barabas!" And "Crucify Jesus" today we see massive identity in darkness that identify and takes over society, and families, the rights of others to live and believe, as they scream intolerance, they define and personify intolerance. No one matters but self, and the darkness that affirms them as ok.

Any light that shines anywhere near them in their darkness is met with hate and intolerance. So we then hear "eliminate religion" "no signs of religious culture aloud, but we can erect a statue to Buddha, or Plato, anyone but Jesus.

Religion, the voice of light is silenced. Religious freedom confined to behind closed doors. Sound like tolerance?

Jesus said they will hate you, just like they hated me. Light shows darkness, and they scream just for light believing their darkness is sin. They HATE any eyes looking their way that have any light in them, and if they could they would pluck them out, never to look at them again.

Isn't it amazing how unreasonable and intolerance has grown to become. It's not enough for people of light to be tolerant. It's not enough till they put it out! Until they release your own children from your families values and moral standards. Why?

Because darkness hates light because in light nothing is hidden or masked, you see things as they are, and people prefer deception so light doesn't expose the darkness they dwell in.

This is a short clip that explains the atheist. Give it a few minutes, the letter from the atheist is both shocking yet sadly accurate and believable.

https://youtu.be/cdDi_lyo8uc

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Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

I am not an atheist. I believe in aliens. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

It would be quite a trick forJesus to fullfil every detail in all the prophesies foretold of the expected Messiah to such accuracy.

Every aspect - His birth place, His infant escape to Egypt, oh and related to that, is the prophesy of the deaths of the babies by Herod.

So He would have had to orchestrate that at 2 yrs old, or His parents did, but I doubt they had any pull or clout with Herod to have pulled that off!

His physical attributes and mannerisms, the visit from the wise men, the Manger, oh and the forced travel near time of birth to Bethlehem required by a decree of Roman rule, in order to register populous in families home of origins.

Then He would have had to openly fulfil every prophesy in His visual ministry, Yet, be hidden enough so the Pharisees didn't make any connections to the scriptures they had memorized, as well as hidden from the general public, who also had the scriptures memorized.

So He would have had to have been everything they Should Have, and Would Have Expected from Prophesies, YET, hidden enough that they would have rejected Him. So He would have had to control responses of unwilling participants from Herod to the Pharisees to the general Jewish public.

Because it's foretold, they'd reject their Messiah, thus forcing the gospel out to the Gentiles, and to every Nation.

So not only all of what the prophets foretold of Him, but also orchestrate every one else, including the actions and responses of all the willing, and all of the unwilling participants.

So Jesus would have had to have been extremely talented to work these details such as their rejection, Judas' betrayal with a kiss, his silver coins payment, his distress after, and even the field the Pharisees bought with the coins he through back in quilt, and then his suicide.

He would have had to pre-plan Roman Soldiers, Pontius Pilate, the brutal beating whipping, and maybe He requested the crown of thorns, the spear in His side, and maybe He made a special agreement of cooperation if they promised not to break His legs like they did all the criminals crucified, so that every detail was accounted for. Oh and He probably orchestrated being in the middle of two crucified criminals that day instead of being on the end, and instead of being one of 5 on that particular day. And I guess He made a deal they'd release Barabas a murderer as He scripted the mob against Him.

Then striking the Shepherd, the sheep were scattered. I guess when He told Peter about his denial 3 times before the rooster crowed, He was really instructing them to behave like scared rabbits and scatter.

Then the after, that He'd be given a tomb by a rich guy, and of course have His body stolen.

And all that scattered would be bold to their deaths, after being chicken. And emboldened by a stolen core, not a Risen Savior.

So then He orchestrated the severe persecutions after, and the martyrs. Which they went to their deaths, and not just the eleven disciples.

Many who saw and followed, met death by lions, stoning, beheadings, prison, loss of loved ones all for a conspiracy orchestrated by Jesus.

Then, with all that, it grew and grew pushed out from the Jews, to all the Gentiles, and out to every Nation, every nationality, yet remained rejected by Jews as a whole as told in prophesies.

And then He planned all the false prophets and misrepresentations of His message as prophesied, or I guess you could say duh, that was bound to happen. Not really, the prophecies are much bigger pictures than experience would allow in imagination.

So then, all these things were foretold, and I dont know which would need a greater miracle ... Jesus orchestrating all that, it it all being true and He is who He said He is.

Side: The one true religion is:
2 points

My aliens can accomplish that feat quite easily through the use of time travel. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Go to my points and prove them to be nonsense. You did not at all rebut any of my points. NOT ONE was logically dissected by you! NOT ONE! Generalizations of your baseless opinion are not arguments.

Seriously! So what do you even base logic on, Your Hot Air and FLATULENCE!

Side: Just try to be good.
AlofRI(3276) Clarified
1 point

Amazing, jolie, how some people take you seriously! "Flatulence??? Was that YOU!?? SHEESH!

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

When we go to trial, we include every source of evidence all prespective, not just from sources that support a pre determinef conclusion. Investigation and trial without an independent fair objective investigation is a mistrial.

The determination is beyond a reasonable doubt.

After all the evidence is looked at, we all make a jury decision.

And it is applied to what we conclude.

After all the evidence is given an objective review, do we find God Exists beyond a reasonable doubt, or that He doesn't exist beyond a reasonable doubt.

If evidence is excluded from objective reviw, you don't have a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt, all you have is a mistrial!

.it is a history book! It's obviously a history book! It's Ancient history written in a book!

It's the most long term following of one group of people through ancient history all in one book.

You can even see the growth of culture as it progresses through time. It is an eye into people of that day. You can just imagine them living in tents early on like Noah, Abraham, and Jacob.

To houses and the Palace of King Solomon.

Here is physical evidence, please take the time to watch it, it's on Netflix. If you don't then you can't say it doesn't exist.

http://patternsofevidence.com/

Side: The one true religion is:
2 points

If there isn't a video recording of the event and proof that it wasn't tampered with, then the evidence needs to be interpreted. There can be more than one interpretation. The interpretation that is selected is not guaranteed to be the correct interpretation. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Go to my points and prove them to be nonsense. You did not at all rebut any of my points. NOT ONE was logically dissected by you! NOT ONE! Generalizations of your baseless opinion are not arguments.

Seriously! So what do you even base logic on, Your Hot Air and FLATULENCE!

Side: Just try to be good.
1 point

Reasonable doubt- this is credible evidence

It is not likely and is not usual - as a matter of fact it is HIGHLY unlikely and EXTREMELY unusual!!

Here is part of the historical event of Steven's Martyrdom

Notice his stoners coats were laid at Saul's feet.

Saul after murdering Christiand, has an unusual transformation and personally experienced an encounter with the Risen Jesus.

Saul goes from killing them to the greatest winner of souls. And by those actions fullfills PROPHESY!! And his dramatic conversion pushes the gospel out from his own countrymen to Gentiles, (other Nation other than Israel) and is well know even from those he was in league with while severely persecuting Christians.

Matt 24

14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Isaiah 11

10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious."

.

So like it, or not this IS reasonable evidence, and along with 2000 prophesies that have already been fulfilled in detail!

With only 500 to go, and some of those are in process!

Evidence FOR GOD is mounting!!!

Stephen was martyred as murders placed their coats at

Saul's feet.

SAUL Later became PAUL, and went on to become a valiant Appostle of the faith he was a murderer in war against Christians!

What changed?

Acts 7

51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52 Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”

54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

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Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

You should watch the HBO mini series, "The night of." It explains the concept of Reasonable doubt. I don't think your definition is correct.

Side: The one true religion is:
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Go to my points and prove them to be nonsense. You did not at all rebut any of my points. NOT ONE was logically dissected by you! NOT ONE! Generalizations of your baseless opinion are not arguments.

Seriously! So what do you even base logic on, Your Hot Air and FLATULENCE!

Side: Just try to be good.
1 point

Other sources confirm Bible - New Testament

I think there is a difference between Christianity and other religions, in that

persecution was prophesied, and so also was the growth of Christianity. They were both prophesied by Jesus on several occasions, and they both came true in tandem.

2 The 4 Gospels are detailed individually written accounts that do not show any discrepancies that would indicate collusion .

by historians, and other investigative studies.

3 There are other documents confirm the texts. Some are hostile sources. But we can see the dynamics of the time period

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Hostile Non-Biblical Pagan Accounts

There are a number of ancient classical accounts of Jesus from pagan, non-Christian sources. These accounts are generally hostile to Christianity; some ancient authors denied the miraculous nature of Jesus and the events surrounding His life:

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Thallus (52AD)

Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus and he is so ancient his writings don’t even exist anymore. But Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD does quote Thallus who previously tried to explain away the darkness occurring at Jesus’ crucifixion:

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“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

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If only more of Thallus’ record could be found, we might find more confirmation of Jesus’ crucifixion. But there are some things we can conclude from this account: Jesus lived, He was crucified, and there was an earthquake and darkness at the point of His crucifixion.

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Tacitus (56-120AD)

Cornelius Tacitus was known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116AD, he describes Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:

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“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”

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In this account, Tacitus confirms several historical elements of the Biblical narrative: Jesus lived in Judea, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and had followers who were persecuted for their faith in Christ.

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Mara Bar-Serapion (70AD)

Sometime after 70AD, a Syrian philosopher named Mara Bar-Serapion, writing to encourage his son, compared the life and persecution of Jesus with that of other philosophers who were persecuted for their ideas. The fact Jesus is known to be a real person with this kind of influence is important. Mara Bar-Serapion refers to Jesus as the “Wise King”:

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“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?…After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men…The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted.”

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From this account, we can add to our understanding of Jesus: He was a wise and influential man who died for His beliefs. The Jewish leadership was somehow responsible for Jesus’ death. Jesus’ followers adopted His beliefs and lived their lives accordingly.

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Phlegon (80-140AD)

In a manner similar to Thallus, Julius Africanus also mentions a historian named Phlegon who wrote a chronicle of history around 140AD. In this history, Phlegon also mentions the darkness surrounding the crucifixion in an effort to explain it:

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“Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth to the ninth hour.” (Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen (an early church theologian and scholar, born in Alexandria):

“Now Phlegon, in the thirteenth or fourteenth book, I think, of his Chronicles, not only ascribed to Jesus a knowledge of future events . . . but also testified that the result corresponded to His predictions.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 14)

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“And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place … ” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 33)

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“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 59)

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From these accounts, we can add something to our understanding: Jesus had the ability to accurately predict the future, was crucified under the reign of Tiberius Caesar and demonstrated His wounds after he was resurrected.

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Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)

Early Christians were also described in early, non-Christian history. Pliny the Younger, in a letter to the Roman emperor Trajan, describes the lifestyles of early Christians:

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“They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

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This early description of the first Christians documents several facts: the first Christians believed Jesus was GOD, the first Christians upheld a high moral code, and these early followers met regularly to worship Jesus.

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Suetonius (69-140AD)

Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):

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“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)

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This expulsion took place in 49AD, and in another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:

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“Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)

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There is much we can learn from Suetonius as it is related to the life of early Christians. From this account, we know Jesus had an immediate impact on His followers: They were committed to their belief Jesus was God and withstood the torment and punishment of the Roman Empire. Jesus had a curious and immediate impact on His followers, empowering them to die courageously for what they knew to be true.

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Lucian of Samosata: (115-200 A.D.)

Lucian was a Greek satirist who spoke sarcastically of Christ and Christians, but in the process, he did affirm they were real people and never referred to them as fictional characters:

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“The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account….You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.” (Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13)

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From this account we can add to our description of Jesus: He taught about repentance and about the family of God. These teachings were quickly adopted by Jesus’ followers and exhibited to the world around them.

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Celsus (175AD)

This is the last hostile, non-Christian account we will examine (although there are many other later accounts in history). Celsus was quite antagonistic to the claims of the Gospels, but in his criticism he unknowingly affirmed and reinforced the Biblical authors and their content. His writing is extensive and he alludes to 80 different Biblical quotes, confirming their early appearance in history. In addition, he admits the miracles of Jesus were generally believed in the early 2nd century:

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“Jesus had come from a village in Judea, and was the son of a poor Jewess who gained her living by the work of her own hands. His mother had been turned out of doors by her husband, who was a carpenter by trade, on being convicted of adultery [with a soldier named Panthéra (i.32)]. Being thus driven away by her husband, and wandering about in disgrace, she gave birth to Jesus, a bastard. Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain (magical) powers which Egyptians pride themselves on possessing. He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god.”

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Celsus admits Jesus was reportedly born of a virgin, but then argues this could supernatural account could not be possible and offers the idea Jesus was the illegitimate son of a man named Panthera (an idea borrowed from Jews who opposed Jesus at the time). But in writing this account, Celsus does confirm several important claims: Jesus had an earthly father who was a carpenter, possessed unusual magical powers and claimed to be God.

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Hostile Non-Biblical Jewish Accounts

In addition to classical pagan sources chronicling the life of Jesus and His followers, there are also a number of ancient hostile Jewish sources describing Jesus. These are written by Jewish theologians, historians and leaders who were definitely not sympathetic to the Christian cause. Their writings are often very harsh, critical and even demeaning to Jesus. But there is still much these writings confirm:

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Josephus (37-101AD)

In more detail than any other non-biblical historian, Josephus writes about Jesus in his “the Antiquities of the Jews” in 93AD. Josephus was born just four years after the crucifixion. He was a consultant for Jewish rabbis at an early age, became a Galilean military commander by the age of sixteen, and he was an eyewitness to much of what he recorded in the first century A.D. Under the rule of Roman emperor Vespasian, Josephus was allowed to write a history of the Jews. This history includes three passages about Christians, one in which he describes the death of John the Baptist, one in which he mentions the execution of James (and describes him as the brother of Jesus the Christ), and a final passage which describes Jesus as a wise man and the messiah. There is much legitimate controversy about the writing of Josephus, because the first discoveries of his writings are late enough to have been re-written by Christians who were accused of making additions to the text. So to be fair, we’ll examine a scholarly reconstruction stripped of Christian embellishment:

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“Now around this time lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was a worker of amazing deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. He won over both many Jews and many Greeks. Pilate, when he heard him accused by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, (but) those who had first loved him did not cease (doing so). To this day the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared” (This neutral reconstruction follows closely the one proposed by John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus: The Roots of the Problem and the Person).

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Now there are many other ancient versions of Josephus’ writing which are even more explicit about the nature of Jesus’ miracles, life and his status as the Christ, but let’s take this conservative version and see what we can learn. From this text, we can conclude: Jesus lived in Palestine, was a wise man and a teacher, worked amazing deeds, was accused by the Jews, crucified under Pilate and had followers called Christians.

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Jewish Talmud (400-700AD)

While the earliest Talmudic writings of Jewish Rabbis appear in the 5th century, the tradition of these Rabbinic authors indicates they are faithfully transmitting teachings from the early “Tannaitic” period of the 1st Century BC to the 2nd Century AD. Scholars believe there are a number of Talmudic writings referring to Jesus, and many of these writings are said to use code words to describe Jesus (such as “Balaam” or “Ben Stada” or “a certain one”). But for our purposes we’ll be very conservative and limit our examination to the passages referring to Jesus in a more direct way:

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“Jesus practiced magic and led Israel astray” (b. Sanhedrin 43a; cf. t. Shabbat 11.15; b. Shabbat 104b)

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“Rabbi Hisda (d. 309) said that Rabbi Jeremiah bar Abba said, ‘What is that which is written, ‘No evil will befall you, nor shall any plague come near your house’? (Psalm 91:10)… ‘No evil will befall you’ (means) that evil dreams and evil thoughts will not tempt you; ‘nor shall any plague come near your house’ (means) that you will not have a son or a disciple who burns his food like Jesus of Nazareth.” (b. Sanhedrin 103a; cf. b. Berakhot 17b)

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“Our rabbis have taught that Jesus had five disciples: Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni and Todah. They brought Matthai to (to trial). He said, ‘Must Matthai be killed? For it is written, ‘When (mathai) shall I come and appear before God?’” (Psalm 92:2) They said to him, “Yes Matthai must be killed, for it is written, ‘When (mathai) he dies his name will perish’” (Psalm 41:5). They brought Nakai. He said to them, “Must Nakai be killed? For it is written, “The innocent (naqi) and the righteous will not slay’” (Exodus 23:7). They said to him, “Yes, Nakai must be kille, for it is written, ‘In secret places he slays the innocent (naqi)’” (Psalm 10:8). (b. Sanhedrin 43a; the passage continues in a similar way for Nezer, Buni and Todah)

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And this, perhaps the most famous of Talmudic passages about Jesus:

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“It was taught: On the day before the Passover they hanged Jesus. A herald went before him for forty days (proclaiming), “He will be stoned, because he practiced magic and enticed Israel to go astray. Let anyone who knows anything in his favor come forward and plead for him.” But nothing was found in his favor, and they hanged him on the day before the Passover. (b. Sanhedrin 43a)

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From just these passages mentioning Jesus by name, we can conclude the following: Jesus had magical powers, led the Jews away from their beliefs, had disciples who were martyred for their faith (one of whom was named Matthai), and was executed on the day before the Passover.

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The Toledot Yeshu (1000AD)

The Toledot Yeshu is a medieval Jewish retelling of the life of Jesus. It is completely anti-Christian, to be sure. There are many versions of these ‘retellings’, and as part of the transmitted oral and written tradition of the Jews, we can presume their original place in antiquity, dating back to the time of Jesus’ first appearance as an influential leader who was drawing Jews away from their faith in the Law. The Toledot Yeshu contains a determined effort to explain away the miracles of Jesus and to deny the virgin birth. In some places, the text is quite vicious, but it does confirm many elements of the New Testament writings. Let’s take a look at a portion of the text (Jesus is called ‘Yehoshua’):

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Above taken from :

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside- the-bible/

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Side: The one true religion is:
3 points

I had forgotten how wordy Christians can get ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

Evidence when viewed goes beyond reasonable doubt!

Here is some evidence that supports an affirmative verdict regarding many Biblical facts, including the Resurection:

1 - The Prophetic Words, and the Biblical Directions of Prophesy, and the Plan, the ultimate bottom line action and goals of Biblical content and Prophesy.

2 - Because Biblical History is credible it is a source in support of evidence.

3 - Because Biblical Prophesy is credible in its fulfillments it is an even greater source in support of evidence, especially since prophesy is layered, with many separate prophesies having to also come true for one to come true! - Even greater than knitting cells together in evolution!

4 - Because eye witness testimony, even outside of the Bible, other documents, Greek and Roman secular offer details confirming the dynamics of Christianity and Persecutions and Martyrdom.

5 - The accounts are not contradictions, (as though any were lying) the various times and places of writings actually are a confirmation of reliability, people who lie have fuzzy memories in a week, even with practice and easy communications of our day, lies unravel because even the untrained eye can pick out lies, but that's not the case with the four gospels, they confirm accidentally each other's facts, that show true eyewitness independent works, with different perspectives of the same exact event, as you know since you "read the book" the private investigated discusses this.

6 - The degree of insistence on the testimonies of Christians, and it's growth beyond their group, location, and generation. In comparison Muslims were militant from the start, attracting like violent individuals. It would not have the same magnet effect as peaceful Christians fed to lions. One would excell in dominance, like cell selection, the other would be eliminated as passive cells are dominated.

7 - The Prophetic Words spoken of concerning the rejection by its "mother religion" and the Prophetic Words stating as Messiah would be rejected, All Nations would hear an exclusive religion, rejected by its originator and accepted world wide!

8 - 300 prophesies fulfilled in just the one person Jesus

9 - Martyrdom, the ferverency and dedication, they most all went courageously against horrible opposition, and most ultimately died for it. And not in a group drinking poison like Jim Jones, Christians often died or were imprisoned alone and often died gruesome deaths

10 - Paul a Jew of Jews, happily killing Christians saw what must have been a hologram! Jesus the Risen Lord knocked him off a horse and blinded him, then sent him to talk to his disciples.

Picture this, Saul/Paul had just led a crowd in Stephen's stoning, Saul was unmoved by it, it was something he was gladly a part of. All the Christians knew of Saul, and he scared of them, they feared for their lives.

Jesus knocks Saul off of a horse, and disarms him by making him temporarily blind. Probably so the Christians wouldn't fear him when he pulled up on his horse. Jesus made him disabled in killing them, so he couldn't harm them.

Jesus sends Saul to get disciples that just saw him murder their friend and brother, Stephen! Now he is there to be saved, healed and filled with the Spirit.

Paul goes on to lead the way like a work horse bringing the message of Jesus the Risen Christ to the Gentiles. Saul Jew of Jews - takes on a new name, born again, and brought the gospel out to the Gentiles.

So these are 10 pieces of evidence I have and consider as evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt"

[Courtesy of debate with Slapshot - The fact that other bios are sometimes written by folks who did not know the subject is moot. Why? Because, say, a bio on FDR has been written by hundreds if not thousands of people. So there is no doubt as to the facts in it, which are easily checkable. And no doubt of course to FDR's existence. And of course a bio on FDR or JFK does not have them performing magical or supernatural feats.

With JC, there is precious little written about him by ANY secular sources. And of the few mentions of him there ARE by seculars, NONE of them claim he was a god nor did miracles. Only that, I think in maybe one or two secular accounts, it is mentioned that "some of his followers claim he performed miracles."

IOW: outside of your bible, which is filled with preposterous claims of magic, there is scant if not NO evidence that JC was anything close to a god. Thus, when taken as a whole, it appears in all likelihood he was simply another of the dozens of zealous political insurrectionists of his time, who bristled at Roman Occupation.]

KNHAV777- They have been historically confirmed the way anything historical has been confirmed!

What makes it all the more confirmed is the outside sources!

And you mentioned there is no outside sources regarding Jesus performing miracles, then an even greater challenge would be there are no writings saying the claim of miracles to be fraudulent. With the objection, I would think writings stating how not to fall for these lies would be an even greater expectation.

After all, the are documented by 4 Gospel writers, and in acts and letters.

And Catholocism and Constantine, even though he converted he established Catholocism and killed Christians who resisted Catholicism and beginning Catholocism burned their Bibles and writings, Catholocism wanted to control the populous so only the the Catholic Church had the written Word, hence the Dark Ages. The one sect remained true to the faith, and the Word was a black market item punishable by prison or death.

KNHAV777- Even more proof: So, the proof actually is there are NO writings rebutting claims of miracles. There are None rebutting Jesus' miracles, nor the early Christian miracles. Which should be more so in excess from all the opposition from Jews, Romans, and Greeks! They had even more reason to write against claims, then the Christians who already had much documentation of the miracles and Words of Jesus in all the writings we did and do already have as Christians!

So thanks, (courtesy of debate with Slapshot) FYI that's now my 11th reason for evidence "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt!"

Also there are other sources. Such as the Darkening from the 6th hour to the 9th. And it was documented to not be a coincidental eclipse. So Reason # 12!

We have a documentation stating it, and astronomers confirm there was no eclipse that day. So as the Roman Soldiers said, "Surely He was the Son of God" and if that's the case then of course the Resurection is a God thing to do!

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

Aliens were responsible for all of it. ;)

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

FYI - Johova Witnesses are a cult.

They follow false doctrines, of a false prophet!

Another of many deceptions.

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

Every religion disparages every other religion ;)

Side: The one true religion is:

Is: Christianity.

AND DOING GOOD!!!.....Hmmm

◄Isaiah 64:6 New International Version All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Romans 4:2►New International VersionIf, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.

Side: The one true religion is:
KNHav(1957) Clarified
2 points

It's not about "being good" its about "being made good." By the work of the Spirit of Christ within us.

Its about being covered, renewed, changed, and having new clothes. Made new inside to the outside, with new heart then new clothes.

Matt 6

28 And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin,

29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these.

30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you

2 Corinthians 5:2

For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,

Side: The one true religion is:
AlofRI(3276) Clarified
1 point

That "wind" that sweeps us away....That's likely jolie's "flatulence".............. :<0

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

Did you ever hear? "Our righteousness is like filthy rags before Him." What does it mean?

It is explained in this parable under clarify post for length. (Matthew 22)

A backdrop the wedding clothes are coverings. Imagine Jesus legally purchased all the dust back from under the fall, our flesh that makes up a bodily covering for our souls.

One set of dust is cleansed and made new, and in His nature. The other "garment" is like the nature of Cain, wrestling with the ground to produce "the best" and "the worste" of mankind's nature.

Coverings, clothes, and garments, also in the law mentioned are garments made of two fabrics, this is a prophetic command for judgment against "divided hearts."

See Laodecea in Revelations. And I encourage you to study these words in the Bible for more understanding.

At the Resurrection He eventually ... (in two stages, I just mentioned for clarity purpose only.)

Eventually all bodies are returned to each disembodied soul. Disembodied souls since the fall, these wander lost is the hopelessness and brokenness of man in the Hell in the middle of the earth.

Jesus was the Bread who was broken for us, in order to make us whole again. This is Salvation. In case you ever wondered "saved from what?"

So in the end when everyone has their bodies is returned to them, those not cleansed and made new through the work of Christ will be "as filthy rags" which is actually referencing "menstrual rags" (note: which is a state of being barren)

And those have to sit outside. Where it is written in Revelations, He says "outside are the dogs immoral etc... "

The whole Bible is one string, one author, one purpose, one direction, literally one beginnining to end!

If you understand it by His revealing it. So in your own righteousness no matter how man mwasures, before Jesus you will not be dressed appropriately for His wedding feast!

Side: The one true religion is:
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

Matt 22

10 Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

11 “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,

12 and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless.

13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

No one holds the absolute truth so no one could claim to be one true religion. All I know is that man has his own perspective as he is subjective. He could not tell the absolute right nor what is wrong nor can he tell the back of the house while only seeing the front of the house. Respectively, with religion, they hold truth but only a part of it. : )

Side: The one true religion is:
3 points

No single world religion accounts for even half the world population, and since most people pretty much stuck with what they were taught growing up then most of the world population would be doomed pretty much from birth if only one religion was correct. I can't accept that. Nor do I think an omnipotent God would allow that unless s/he isn't truly fair or loving, and if not then it's just another bully and not worth appeasing.

Side: Just try to be good.
1 point

But God already said that the Jews are His chosen people ;)

Side: Just try to be good.
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Christianity has called people out of many religions. Many ferverent Christians were raised in dead churches, Catholocism, Islam, World Religions, and Judaism.

The intresting thing about Christianity is its roots. Mother is Judaism. And the same claim is a thread, out of Judaism. Christians are basically Jews who received the Messiah.

We are children of Abraham, God promised him he would be father of Nations, not just Israel.

And you have prophetic word that passed through with a clear defined directive, passing down a diligence of written Word a sacred text, each page reviewed by 5 scribes, and perfect was the goal of every page.

The prophet words seem to be directed on purpose, not just pre-written history, it was pre-planned history!

Whether you like God or not is a different question as to does He exist, and is there only one truth.

But there is a God, and the Bible is His Word. The Jews and everything that surrounds them in the Bible confirms Him.

There has been a great deal of extreme hate toward Jews and Christians.

Look at the history of these two groups, oppression and persecution are synonyms. From Jewish opposition then Holocaust, and they are surrounded you enemies. And the Catholic Church killed millions of Christians. Christians were target. Why? Could there be something to it all

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

All I know is that the God in the old testament is a wrathful God and the God in the new testament is a kinder, gentler, God. I also know that the Jews claim to be the chosen people and Christians appear to have hijacked the Jewish religion, added Jesus into the mix and claimed that anyone can be saved, not just the chosen.

Side: The one true religion is:
cownbueno(407) Clarified
1 point

Just wondering, is Catholicism not a form of Christianity?

Side: The one true religion is:
1 point

I find it ironic to try and be looking for a single selective religion that would be deemed as the 'right' one from the plethora that exist, mostly due to the fact that nearly every religion mandates itself as the 'true' religion and requires that one is faithful to the deity(s) of this religion. I think that it is best to look at every religion separately and pick out the positive aspects of each, and try to live accordingly to those, therefore just trying to be good and the best person that you can possibly be. Many religious people act overall better and in a kinder way than non-religious people, meaning that there is definitely something important and good within religion, and it shouldn't be denounced in any generalized way.

Side: Just try to be good.
1 point

There is no "right" religion. Nor is there any way to be "good" so there's not much point in trying.

Side: Just try to be good.
1 point

I think the main point of just about every religion is to be good. Regardless of what you believe the main tenet in most religions is the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It's in this regard that I don't care what you believe, you could believe in God or Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it doesn't matter. Be a good person and your reward comes to you according to your belief.

Side: Just try to be good.