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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

34
46
True. Wait..., what? No!!!
Debate Score:80
Arguments:81
Total Votes:84
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Argument Ratio

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 True. (34)
 
 Wait..., what? No!!! (38)

Debate Creator

jolie(9805) pic



One explanation for why people voted for BrExit and why people will vote for Trump.

On both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, large numbers of people feel that the fundamental contracts of capitalism and democracy have been broken. In a capitalist economy, citizens tolerate rich people if they share in the wealth, and in a democracy, they give their consent to be governed if those governing do so in their interest. The Brexit vote was an opportunity for people to tell elites that both promises have been broken. The most effective line of the Leave campaign was “take back control.” It is also Donald Trump’s line.

The day after the referendum, “voter stupidity” seemed to be the default explanation traded among elites. There certainly was a lot of misinformation spread during the campaign. But in my own conversations, and listening to voters explain their support for Leave in the media, I heard something different: They are human. And humans don’t always act in ways that are straightforwardly self-interested. In fact, numerous voters said they knew there would be a cost to Brexit—job losses, higher prices, anger from Britain’s allies—but they were willing to pay that price to have their voices heard, to regain a sense of control, and to punish the elites who, they felt, had betrayed them.

People will sacrifice their own self-interest and harm themselves, even severely, to enforce norms of reciprocity.

The reason the Remain camp lost was that they didn’t understand the game they were playing. They thought they were playing a rational game, appealing to people’s pocketbooks and sense of security. They fought their campaign with facts and figures and by highlighting the risks of Brexit. But the voters were playing the Ultimatum Game. Leave understood this and fought with promises to “take back control.” Like the Remain campaign, Hillary Clinton is also playing the rational game, appealing to voters’ economic and security self-interest. Donald Trump is the weapon of the altruistic punishers. Clinton needs to recognize that voters are not playing the same game she is. She needs to convince voters that she hears them and will restore the fundamental promises of capitalism and democracy. If she doesn’t, November 8 might be as shocking a day as June 23.

True.

Side Score: 34
VS.

Wait..., what? No!!!

Side Score: 46
1 point

BTW, this may also explain why terrorists are willing to blow themselves up.

Side: True.
jolie(9805) Clarified
1 point

If we have another world war, we may be able to kill enough disenfranchised people to reduce the cost of getting the rest of the people to STFU. ;)

Side: True.
1 point

I think you're onto something. But I think there is one more component to it. BAD INFORMATION. Bad information rules the day now. People distrust mainstream news sources, as well as mainstream authority figures, and instead embrace radicals and blogs and Facebook memes and radical talking heads. Which makes it easy for large swaths of population to be lead down a destructive path. Gone are the days a university professor or government source could calm and dispel a thread of bad information going around. And tied in with this is a belief now by many people that they are WELL INFORMED because of all the stuff they've been reading on Facebook and the web.

Side: True.
1 point

If we have another world war, we may be able to kill enough stupid people and stay on the straight and narrow instead of being lead down the destructive path. ;)

Side: True.
Grenache(6057) Clarified
1 point

Does that mean after decades of radical Muslims being used as cannon fodder that the remaining Muslims are really smart?

Side: True.

Hillary would not be the Democrat nominee unless she followed the dictates of this new extremist Democrat party of political correctness.

She is never going back to the message of capitalism and democracy.

The Democerat party has become the closet socialist party as we saw with Obama, Bernie Sanders and now Hillary. The Party realizes after decades of conditioning, have accomplished their goal of creating a huge welfare voting block of people living off Government.

I would love to see the numbers today of Americans using Medicaid and other social programs.

It is simply traitorous to buy votes at the expense of our nation's well being. As a nation rewards laziness and punishes hard work and responsibility with high taxes and forced healthcare mandates, what do you think the outcome will be?

Capitalism is the common sense ratoinal system whereby ANYONE who works hard and live's responsibly can succede in life. This system rewards hard work and does not tax you to death to buy the votes of others.

Side: True.
1 point

The general feeling (that started after the crash of 2008) is that the people on top broke the system/contract and cheated.

Side: True.
FromWithin(8240) Clarified
1 point

You are listening to the general feelings constantly pushed by the Liberal media tied to the Left.

The Rich pay most of our taxes and are leaving this nation to get away from the highest corporate tax in the world as well as all the regulations.

Yes, there will always be some rich people who abuse the system as there will always be poor people who scam the system. This does not mean you throw out capitalism.

The constant drum beat by the Left of how everything is the Rich's fault is pure politics and the low end voters soak it up because everyone wants something for free. This narrative gives Democrats the votes they will lie for.

Side: True.

I have no probem with millionaires. Without businessmen, we would have no jobs, no innovation, no improved quality of life, etc., etc.

It takes the reward of wealth to spur the risk and long hours it takes to start a business.

I don't hold Trump's wealth against him. He has created many jobs over his career. I will grant you he's an egotist. He's not at all a polished politician knowing what not to say, but this does not exclude him from knowing how to change the direction of this nation.

We need someone with a thick skin that just might do what's best for this nation, not what's best to get elected or cater to certain voting blocks.

Trump is not yet proven corrupt. Until then, he is better than the known corruption of Hillary.

Side: True.
1 point

Have you ever noticed how certain professions attract certain types of people? Like, you wouldn't expect a decent human being to be running a drug cartel. Nor would you expect a narcissist to be helping out at the soup line. So it is with politics. I only expect self serving ass holes to crave a career in politics. But that's just me. I'm a cynic so..., I'm already prejudiced against them. ;)

Side: True.

I would agree with you. What honest person would want to climb into the gutter to ascend to presidency?

So what do we have? The lessor of two evils. For me, that is the Republican party that stands more for our constitution and smaller government.

You just said it, politicians are corrupt so we should want SMALLER GOVERNMENT.

Side: True.
2 points

The people who voted for Brexit or who will vote for Trump are the old fuckers who have been in control for decades.

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!
2 points

Holy crap!!! Are you admitting to becoming a Hillary voter? ;)

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!
1 point

Holy crap!!! Are you admitting that I was right about the old fuckers?

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!
outlaw60(15375) Disputed
1 point

Progressive are you saying the People Of Britain are going to vote for Trump ? Explain that nonsense !

Side: True.
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

Are you trying to claim that only Britain has old fuckers? Explain that nonsense!

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!

Wrong, that sounds more like an article by some journalist trying to fill a column in their employer's newspaper. The overwhelming, not the exclusive, but the overwhelming reason why the people of the United Kingdom took the enormous risk of being left outside the biggest single market in the world and voted for so called Brexit was ''uncontrolled'' immigration. With a population of 65million the influx of over 500,000 immigrants every year has pushed the public services of the United Kingdom beyond breaking point. Teachers having to teach two to five different nationalities in one class, the national health service is just short of collapse with ''economic immigrants'' and health service tourists along with the immigrant demand for free housing and unemployment benefits has turned an unbearable situation into a full blown crisis. As Nigel Farage told the members of the European Parliament;- the E.U, is a political institution in denial. The Euro currency is doomed to fail and the runaway budget and membership requirements of Brussels is bankrupting some nations such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and even France going against all the original E.U, fiscal rules and running a massive budget deficit. The loss of sovereignty and control of one's own borders was another humiliation which the majority of the U.K's population decided was not worth the apparent benefits of being a member of this backward sliding organization. The Brussels Mafiosa, ( the E.U.Parliament ) have never made their books available for audit and are unashamedly unable/unwilling to explain numerous unaccountable sums of money which literally add up to many billions of Euros.

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!