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WTF Ireland?
Just your typical Irish advert
Side Score: 37
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Was not expecting that.
Side Score: 39
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There has been a lot of terrorism in Europe. For instance, the Madrid bombings were carried out by a separatist organization. In 2008, another bombing took place in Spain. There is also a lot of terrorism in Italy, France, and in the past, the UK. Research mate, and it will surprise you. It surprised me. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Yes, so has there been between North and South Korea. However, they still bombard each other from time to time. But what is more interesting is the intolerable Muslims and British in the UK. One British serviceman has been stabbed to death and one British civilian bombed mosques all in this year alone. Terrorism is alive and well in Europe. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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Speeding has only killed a classroom of kids in over a decade? Is that really something significant in Ireland? lol, only a classroom of kids? While I don’t buy into persuasive propaganda like this commercial, I still consider even one loss of life due to negligent inconsiderate behavior is one too many. I would consider a classroom of kids in the past century a significant issue for any country. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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the number of dead classroom kids is insignificant in what way? What makes one number insignificant to another in a given figure? Aren’t both numbers equally significant when applying them to calculations in order to find percentages or probabilities, etc.?.. mathematically speaking, of course. My point is that you’re not just speaking mathematically. You’re implying relevance and meaning to the given figure in order to express an opinion, speaking mathematically would require only the dissemination of facts and data, void of personal feelings. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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You think preventing .008 child deaths a day is significant enough to make a commercial about? Yes, far more significant than Flo and her car insurance. Then you will never fix anything important. Well I guess that would depend on what one considers important. If ‘children being killed by reckless drivers’ ought to be considered important, then I don’t agree with you. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Yes, far more significant than Flo and her car insurance. Flo has probably saved more children than the Irish ad hopes to save. Well I guess that would depend on what one considers important. If ‘children being killed by reckless drivers’ ought to be considered important, then I don’t agree with you. 1 child being killed every 4 months is a statistically anomaly. Side: Was not expecting that.
Flo has probably saved more children than the Irish ad hopes to save. Forgive me if I don’t trust your armchair research. The fact that such a thing is an issue in the first place to even warrant the need for a commercial, however insubstantial that need you consider it, is a problem. 1 child being killed every 4 months is a statistically anomaly. As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well. Regardless, someone considered it significant enough of an issue to afford it the infinitesimal amount of airtime. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
The fact that such a thing is an issue in the first place to even warrant the need for a commercial, however insubstantial that need you consider it, is a problem. You are going to use a tautological argument? The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial? Doesn't that mean that Flo becomes super important? As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well. Regardless, someone considered it significant enough of an issue to afford it the infinitesimal amount of airtime. So, it is just a CYA thing. "Let's make a commercial so that later we can come back and claim we tried to help the children." Side: Was not expecting that.
You are going to use a tautological argument? The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial? No, that is not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying that the fact that children are killed, no matter how insignificant you consider the amount to be which would warrant a commercial, just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem. You’re focusing on the fact that theirs a commercial about it and saying that its not significant enough to warrant a TV ad. My bringing up car insurance commercials was a frivolous attempt at revealing how small of a “waste of time” a commercial bringing awareness to car accidents is compared to the excessive amount of advertisements and other crap there is on TV. It was not meant to be taken so seriously. Even so, using your own reasoning where the significance of an issue depends on its frequency, one would have to conclude that the commercial referenced in the OP is not as much of a waste of time considering the miniscule amount of them that take up precious airtime. Doesn't that mean that Flo becomes super important? Yes, if you are prone to using inconsistent comparisons. I’m not arguing that an issue’s significance correlates with its having a commercial or not. Issues are significant or insignificant regardless of commercials being made. And also, regarding my first response to your original statement: I’m arguing that the significance of an issue does not depend on its frequency either. So, it is just a CYA thing. "Let's make a commercial so that later we can come back and claim we tried to help the children." Lol, no, that’s not what I’m suggesting; I don’t even know how you arrived at that. I’m suggesting the possibility that there are those who consider it a big enough issue regardless of the infrequency of the occurrence. Either could be true of the people who made the commercial I suppose. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem. Not really. You will never reach 0% deaths due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45 mph 2 ton missile. All you can hope for is a small percentage, say.... 0.008%? Above that it may be considered a problem but at that level and below, it's just collateral damage. Safety cannot be guaranteed, it can only be managed and mitigated. I mean... that's just life. Shit happens. You know? ;) Side: Just your typical Irish advert
No, that is not at all what I’m saying. Ok, but those are the words you used. I’m saying that the fact that children are killed, no matter how insignificant you consider the amount to be which would warrant a commercial, just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem. Then, you justified your thinking by saying they created a commercial. You’re focusing on the fact that theirs a commercial about it and saying that its not significant enough to warrant a TV ad. You were the one who focused on them making an ad for it, not me. Instead of discussing whether your position is correct you made the claim that a commercial was created so you must be right. My bringing up car insurance commercials was a frivolous attempt at revealing how small of a “waste of time” a commercial bringing awareness to car accidents is compared to the excessive amount of advertisements and other crap there is on TV. It was not meant to be taken so seriously. No one took it seriously. Even so, using your own reasoning where the significance of an issue depends on its frequency, one would have to conclude that the commercial referenced in the OP is not as much of a waste of time considering the miniscule amount of them that take up precious airtime. So, you are saying the Irish don't actually care about kids dying because they would have spent more time on it if they really did care. Yes, if you are prone to using inconsistent comparisons. I’m not arguing that an issue’s significance correlates with its having a commercial or not. Issues are significant or insignificant regardless of commercials being made. Who brought up flo? You started with the comparisons. And also, regarding my first response to your original statement: I’m arguing that the significance of an issue does not depend on its frequency either. Then, you don't know what the word significance means. People die every day. Lots and lots of people. One death in a day is not significant. So, 1 death every 120 days is also not significant. Lol, no, that’s not what I’m suggesting; I don’t even know how you arrived at that. I’m suggesting the possibility that there are those who consider it a big enough issue regardless of the infrequency of the occurrence. Either could be true of the people who made the commercial I suppose. But, you agree that the commercial will have no affect on anyone and won't save anyone. So, you know that the commercial is insignificant, and I am just extrapolating to the idea that what the commercial is targeting must also be insignificant. That's all. Side: Was not expecting that.
Ok, but those are the words you used. I didn’t see any quotations. Or bold text indicating that I had. Then, you justified your thinking by saying they created a commercial. That’s not what I use to justify my thinking. The fact that a commercial was made is irrelevant to the fact that traffic related deaths is a problem. Whether or not it is a significant problem is what we disagree on, no? You were the one who focused on them making an ad for it, not me. Words from your original comment in this debate: “The commercial seems like a waste of time.” And I'll remind you that I didn't even argue this point originally. Not until you asked me in your following post if I thought it was significant enough to warrant a commercial. Instead of discussing whether your position is correct you made the claim that a commercial was created so you must be right. That is not the claim that I made, that is your misunderstanding of my text. I was not using the fact that a commercial was made as evidence to support my position. So, you are saying the Irish don't actually care about kids dying because they would have spent more time on it if they really did care. I’m genuinely confused. I don’t see how you can gather that from what I said in any way. I’m saying that: you reasoned that the insignificance of the children’s deaths due to speeding is because of how infrequent deaths occur in that way. Using the same line of reasoning, where frequency denotes significance, one could then reason that the commercial “being a waste of time,” (as you said in your original post) isn’t a significant waste of time considering the infrequent occurrence of ads expressing that issue. Who brought up flo? You started with the comparisons. As I said, it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously... and you said it wasn’t. Even so, it wasn’t an inconsistent comparison like the one you used. One death in a day is not significant. So, 1 death every 120 days is also not significant. It depends on who you ask. It’s not an objective truth. you agree that the commercial will have no affect on anyone and won't save anyone. I don’t recall saying I agreed with this. And I don’t. Ads and propaganda and media in general have an amazing way of persuading people, most of the time even without their knowledge. It’s something I both detest and marvel at; how easily it appears to direct the flow of society without society’s awareness to it, like zombies. But I digress. you know that the commercial is insignificant, and I am just extrapolating to the idea that what the commercial is targeting must also be insignificant. I don’t know that, and I didn’t say that. BTW, I’d reconsider extrapolating on the commercials significance to deduce the significance of the commercial’s subject. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
I didn’t see any quotations. Or bold text indicating that I had. "used" is a past tense word. It means that previously it happened. If you go back you will find I did quote you. You are incredibly silly for saying I didn't quote you. That’s not what I use to justify my thinking. The fact that a commercial was made is irrelevant to the fact that traffic related deaths is a problem. Whether or not it is a significant problem is what we disagree on, no? Correct, so please explain how the following is not saying that the commercial was evidence that it is a significant issue: "The fact that such a thing is an issue in the first place to even warrant the need for a commercial, however insubstantial that need you consider it, is a problem." "Regardless, someone considered it significant enough of an issue to afford it the infinitesimal amount of airtime." Don't those both say that you can tell it is a significant issue because someone took the effort to create a commercial? Words from your original comment in this debate: “The commercial seems like a waste of time.” And I'll remind you that I didn't even argue this point originally. Not until you asked me in your following post if I thought it was significant enough to warrant a commercial. Ok, I see what you are talking about now. That is not the claim that I made, that is your misunderstanding of my text. I was not using the fact that a commercial was made as evidence to support my position. Ok, then you used it to say nothing and waste my time. Thanks for not contributing at all. I’m saying that: you reasoned that the insignificance of the children’s deaths due to speeding is because of how infrequent deaths occur in that way. No, you reasoned that the use of commercials is worthless, therefore any message in the commercial is worthless. "As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well." You are the one who said that the commercial won't accomplish anything. Using the same line of reasoning, where frequency denotes significance, one could then reason that the commercial “being a waste of time,” (as you said in your original post) isn’t a significant waste of time considering the infrequent occurrence of ads expressing that issue. Who said it had to be significant to waste time? I said it was a waste of time and an issue that is insignificant, but you seem to want to argue about whether the waste of time is significant. Interesting. As I said, it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously... and you said it wasn’t. Even so, it wasn’t an inconsistent comparison like the one you used. Oh, when you use flo it was proper, but when I use flo it isn't. Sure. It depends on who you ask. It’s not an objective truth. To everyone it is. You don't care about 99% of deaths around the world. If you search deep down you will realize I am right. I don’t recall saying I agreed with this. You said the commercial won't be played frequently enough to be more than an anomaly: "As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well." And I don’t. Ads and propaganda and media in general have an amazing way of persuading people, most of the time even without their knowledge. It’s something I both detest and marvel at; how easily it appears to direct the flow of society without society’s awareness to it, like zombies. But I digress. Oh, now the backpeddling. I don’t know that, and I didn’t say that. BTW, I’d reconsider extrapolating on the commercials significance to deduce the significance of the commercial’s subject. Sweet, back to the "it's significant because they made a commercial" argument. You are fucking awesome. "I never said them making a commercial makes it significant" ... "extrapolate the commercial to deduce the significance of what is in the commercial". Let's see. Over half the commercial is a boring rendition of a famous song, so you immediately want to tune it out. Then a cringeworthy scene where you want to turn away and stop watching. Followed by 5 seconds of a really small stat over a long period of time. Summed up with about 3 seconds of them telling you not to speed. So, if I go by your logic it is an incredibly insignificant subject because the commercial doesn't even make me want to not speed. Side: Was not expecting that.
"used" is a past tense word. It means that previously it happened. If you go back you will find I did quote you. You are incredibly silly for saying I didn't quote you. “The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial?” – You “quoting” me, ostensibly. No, that is not at all what I’m saying. These are not my words. Do you know what quoting someone means? It doesn’t mean putting words in their mouth or misinterpreting what they are saying. Correct, so please explain how the following is not saying that the commercial was evidence that it is a significant issue: "The fact that such a thing is an issue in the first place to even warrant the need for a commercial, however insubstantial that need you consider it, is a problem." Because you could omit the middle portion and it will still reflect my position the way I intended. The fact that [kids being killed due to traffic violations] is an issue in the first place, is a problem with this world. As I said the first time you “quoted” me and accused me with committing a tautological argument: ”I’m saying that the fact that children are killed, no matter how insignificant you consider the amount to be which would warrant a commercial, just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem.” "Regardless, someone considered it significant enough of an issue to afford it the infinitesimal amount of airtime." Don't those both say that you can tell it is a significant issue because someone took the effort to create a commercial? No. I’m not saying that ‘I can tell its significant because there’s a commercial.’ I’m saying I see the issue as significant, and apparently whoever made the commercial does as well. Subsequently, I admitted that I don’t actually know the intentions or views of the people who made the commercial. Like you correctly pointed out, they could have just made it as a CYA thing, could be, I don’t know. No, you reasoned that the use of commercials is worthless, therefore any message in the commercial is worthless. "As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well." You are the one who said that the commercial won't accomplish anything. That was in response to your statement that children dying as a result of speeding violations is a statistical anomaly and your original statement where you said a commercial representing that issue is therefore a waste of time. I’m pointing out that both child deaths and commercials representing them are both statistical anomalies; suggesting that the amount of time “wasted” representing the issue is congruent with the amount of deaths. I said nothing on the subject of a commercial’s worth. Who said it had to be significant to waste time? I said it was a waste of time and an issue that is insignificant, but you seem to want to argue about whether the waste of time is significant. Interesting. Yes, it’s ridiculous. As is complaining of there being a small amount of commercials representing a small amount of deaths. I was suggesting that a minute worth of commercial once every 6 months or so could be afforded to the death of a child every 6 months or so. Oh, when you use flo it was proper, but when I use flo it isn't. Sure. “You think preventing .008 child deaths a day is significant enough to make a commercial about?” - Cartman Yes, far more significant than Flo and her car insurance. – coldfire. I compared the issue at hand with car insurance, something that gets a lot of airtime for commercials. I believe that the issue is far more significant than car insurance. My reference to Flo in particular was an attempt to add some color, forgive me. There are no inconsistencies here. “You are going to use a tautological argument? The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial? Doesn't that mean that Flo becomes super important?” - Cartman Your use of the comparison here was inconsistent with what I was arguing, as I’ve already pointed out that I wasn’t using a tautological argument. To everyone it is. You don't care about 99% of deaths around the world. If you search deep down you will realize I am right. My presumed lack of caring only has an effect on those 99% of deaths’ importance as it pertains to me. I choose to believe that there are less selfish people in the world, but overall the species demonstrates what you claim. In that case, speaking in terms of selfishness and lack of concern, I can see why you consider traffic related deaths in children to be insubstantial. Indeed, I posit that that is why it is an issue in the first place; selfishness and lack of concern. You said the commercial won't be played frequently enough to be more than an anomaly: "As are the appearance of commercials addressing this issue. So the chance that such a commercial is a “waste of time” is a statistical anomaly as well." Read above for my indication of what this quote was in reference to. It wasn’t to say “the commercial won't be played frequently enough to be more than an anomaly.” Those are not my words. Oh, now the backpeddling. As I’ve stated, I’ve never agreed to or claimed that “the commercial will have no affect on anyone and won't save anyone.” Those are not my words. Stating my belief that media has a considerable effect on society is not backpeddling but a disclosure of my beliefs. Sweet, back to the "it's significant because they made a commercial" argument. You are fucking awesome. "I never said them making a commercial makes it significant" ... "extrapolate the commercial to deduce the significance of what is in the commercial". I was suggesting you reconsider your extrapolation when I said “I’d reconsider extrapolating on the commercials significance to deduce the significance of the commercial’s subject.” Your words: “you know that the commercial is insignificant, and I am just extrapolating to the idea that what the commercial is targeting must also be insignificant.” It's your prerogative to respond, but I won’t promise to go on any further. I have no interest in continuing to defend my words from the ones you put in my mouth or the misinterpretations you have of them. This is obviously going nowhere. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
“The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial?” – You “quoting” me, ostensibly. That was me asking you a question. No, that is not at all what I’m saying. These are not my words. Do you know what quoting someone means? It doesn’t mean putting words in their mouth or misinterpreting what they are saying. Me asking a question was never intended to be me quoting you. Because you could omit the middle portion and it will still reflect my position the way I intended. The middle part changes the whole meaning. You can't just leave out portions of your statement. What did you mean by adding the middle portion "to even warrant the need for a commercial"? As is complaining of there being a small amount of commercials representing a small amount of deaths. That was you. I compared the issue at hand with car insurance, something that gets a lot of airtime for commercials. I believe that the issue is far more significant than car insurance. My reference to Flo in particular was an attempt to add some color, forgive me. Why do you need to be forgiven? There was nothing wrong with using flo to represent insurance. What was wrong was claiming the exclusive rights to using insurance. How much money have those flo ads saved people? How much food was purchased with that saved money? How many children survived off of money saved from flo? So, flo could be saving more lives than 30 a decade. Your use of the comparison here was inconsistent with what I was arguing, as I’ve already pointed out that I wasn’t using a tautological argument. You had not pointed out that you weren't using a tautological argument when I made the comparison. So, the comparison was valid. My presumed lack of caring only has an effect on those 99% of deaths’ importance as it pertains to me. I choose to believe that there are less selfish people in the world, but overall the species demonstrates what you claim. That's because death is unavoidable. In that case, speaking in terms of selfishness and lack of concern, I can see why you consider traffic related deaths in children to be insubstantial. Indeed, I posit that that is why it is an issue in the first place; selfishness and lack of concern. I lack concern less than you. My concern is justified. Your concern is worthless. You can't prevent death. I am concerned that we can better spend our time. You are concerned with 0.0016667% of the population. I was suggesting you reconsider your extrapolation when I said “I’d reconsider extrapolating on the commercials significance to deduce the significance of the commercial’s subject.” You were considering that we could determine that there was significance because a commercial was created, the tautological argument. I did anyway. I explained to you exactly why the commercial demonstrates the issue is insignificant without using anything you said. It's your prerogative to respond, but I won’t promise to go on any further. I have no interest in continuing to defend my words from the ones you put in my mouth or the misinterpretations you have of them. This is obviously going nowhere. This is your idea of defending your words? I quoted you directly and your response was to eliminate the middle portion of your exact text. How exactly is that you defending your words? Side: Was not expecting that.
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I am sorry, I didn't realize you came to a debate website to not debate Did I ever said that? No, I did come here to debate. I just don't debate and throw stupid remarks like you do. What is sad about someone responding to you? Nothing is. You just don't quit when you make yourself look like a hypocrite. Side: Was not expecting that.
Did I ever said that? Sorry, it sounded like it from your "argument." No, I did come here to debate. I just don't debate and throw stupid remarks like you do. Well, it is obvious that you do throw out stupid remarks when you say that it is sad for someone to keep responding. Nothing is. You just don't quit when you make yourself look like a hypocrite. I haven't done it yet, so I don't know how I act when I look like a hypocrite. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Well, it is obvious that you do throw out stupid remarks when you say that it is sad for someone to keep responding. Yea, but you make some stupid arguments. For instance, this one. I haven't done it yet, so I don't know how I act when I look like a hypocrite. Maybe you should re-read you arguments. Side: Was not expecting that.
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This is your idea of defending your words? I quoted you directly and your response was to eliminate the middle portion of your exact text. How exactly is that you defending your words? Because it was misinterpreted in the first place and I clarified it in the following response, yet you still keep going back to the statement you misinterpreted. “I’m saying that the fact that children are killed, no matter how insignificant you consider the amount to be which would warrant a commercial, just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem.” Assuming a possible genuine misunderstanding, I clarified it. Yet you continue to disregard that and presume to know more about what I mean then even I do. Like I said, I have no interest in debating with someone if I’m constantly having to defend myself from words I didn’t say and meanings I didn’t intend, even after they’ve been clarified more than once. This was a learning experience for me, I’ll be sure to try and simplify things I say to you from now on so as to alleviate any misunderstandings. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Because it was misinterpreted in the first place and I clarified it in the following response, yet you still keep going back to the statement you misinterpreted. It was not misinterpreted. The person who wrote it added words and never explained how the added words meant anything. Assuming a possible genuine misunderstanding, I clarified it. Yet you continue to disregard that and presume to know more about what I mean then even I do. What did you mean by the added words that you just throw out when you claim you are being misinterpreted? Like I said, I have no interest in debating with someone if I’m constantly having to defend myself from words I didn’t say and meanings I didn’t intend, even after they’ve been clarified more than once. Again, you are having to defend yourself from words you said that you threw out. It is possible that it was meanings you never intended, but you don't explain what the extra words meant. You have still never clarified what you meant with the words you cut out of your statement. This was a learning experience for me, I’ll be sure to try and simplify things I say to you from now on so as to alleviate any misunderstandings. I am glad you learned that adding words changes the meaning of the other words in your sentence. Side: Was not expecting that.
What did you mean by the added words that you just throw out when you claim you are being misinterpreted? “I’m saying that the fact that children are killed, no matter how insignificant you consider the amount to be which would warrant a commercial, just the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem.” Why do you keep ignoring this clarification I offered in immediate response to your misinterpretation? Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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the fact that anyone is killed due to negligence behind the wheel of a 45mph 2 ton missile, is a problem. It really isn't a problem. If it were a problem then a solution (commercial or otherwise) would be implemented to address it. A problem means that the numbers are significantly large. A REAL problem is when it affects not only kids but the entire population. The fact that the commercial specifically deals with kids implies that it does not affect the rest of the population. And the fact that the numbers are so low under scores the whole thing as not a problem. To say that "the death of just one person/child due to negligence is a problem" is crazy. It's crazy because shit happens. You can't eliminate death due to negligence by 100%. To claim that it is 100% preventable is crazy. To say that a commercial will reduce a very low number even lower, is statistically unrealistic. There comes a point where no matter what you do, you can't reduce it further. Especially with a commercial. I'm sorry. I'm left brained. I don't think with my heart and I know a lot of math. ;) Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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I would like to help you learn something: there was absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that what you just quoted is me quoting you. If you go back you will see that I quoted your statement with bold, then asked you this question "“The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial?”" based on what I quoted. So, next time someone quotes you in the black letters realize that what comes underneath that is the words of the person responding to you. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Thanks for the lesson. I am aware of the common use of bold text in CD. If you go back you will see that I quoted your statement with bold, then asked you this question "“The commercial is significant because it was made into a commercial?”” And I followed with “no that is not at all what I’m saying” And you said “but those are the words you used.” I misunderstood you when you said “those are the words you used” because I was referring to your words when I said “that’s not what I’m saying.” And because the words I did use do not convey that meaning. The most I could see someone inferring, if not my intended meaning, would be ‘the issue is significant because there is a commercial.’ Nothing to do with the commercials significance. However, considering the genuine possibility that it needed clarity, I clarified it in the response immediately following. Yet here we are still, two days later. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
I misunderstood you when you said “those are the words you used” because I was referring to your words when I said “that’s not what I’m saying.” And because the words I did use do not convey that meaning. Only if you cut out the middle portion do your words not convey that. The most I could see someone inferring, if not my intended meaning, would be ‘the issue is significant because there is a commercial.’ Nothing to do with the commercials significance. I never said anything about the commercials significance. I was always talking about the issues significance. I was only inferring the issue was significant because they made a commercial. How was it improperly inferred though? However, considering the genuine possibility that it needed clarity, I clarified it in the response immediately following. Yet here we are still, two days later. We are still here 2 days later because you said that I misinterpreted you because I didn't edit out your words, and because I used someone elses words against you when I used the middle portion of your statement as your words. The great thing about this is that I took what you wrote as clarification and explained how you were wrong and you still claimed I was using your words against you. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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Ireland has an annual death rate of 6.41 deaths/1000 population. Tie that in with a 2012 census population of ~4.589 million, and thats a bit over 29,000 deaths per year. That's nearly 300,000 dead in a decade. While I'm not suggesting that the deaths of children should be dismissed out of hand by any means... I'm not certain what the actual figure from the video is, as I can't watch it at work, so I'm going with the average class size in Ireland of 24. This represents 0.008% of deaths over a decade. And we want to solve this problem with education? Compare obesity. Obesity is considered a significant factor in roughly 2000 deaths in Ireland per year, with the number increasing slowly but steadily. This represents another death factor that we would primarily address with education. Despite education, the rate is gradually increasing. Even with strict gun control laws in the UK, more people die by firearm per year than this particular issue killed over the course of a decade. I don't believe this figure represents something that can be addressed by either legislation or education- it's statistical noise. I know it's unfortunate that the noise in this case is children- that places more emphasis on it in our minds. We can't legislate or educate negligence away; I don't really see any way to reduce this count further through either or even both avenues. If we feel compelled to act because of this, we need a better option- perhaps a technological approach? Internetworked self-driving cars could potentially fix this issue- not perfectly, mind you, but I generally find that computers stick to their programming more reliably than humans stick to rules. Side: Was not expecting that.
My main contention with Cartman was that there is a ridiculous amount of crap on TV, I think we can afford to give a small amount of airtime to making people aware of traffic related deaths, regardless of how small their number may be. It doesn’t hurt to be aware of the issue and exercise caution while driving. I don't believe this figure represents something that can be addressed by either legislation or education- it's statistical noise. Saying that the commercial is a waste of time because the amount of deaths is negligible or saying that it’s a waste of time because people will still cause them regardless of education or legislation. I don’t agree with either. That is to say that I don’t believe the amount of deaths by traffic is insignificant or that people aren’t persuaded by things like TV ads which in turn affect their behavior. It’s still a number. Even if zero people died by traffic accidents, I would consider it beneficial to make people aware that the vehicle is dangerous. I’m a big advocate of prevention. If we feel compelled to act because of this, we need a better option Media has done a considerable job at directing the ebb and flow of the zeitgeist; convincing people that it’s their civic duty to exponentially consume finite resources and other such counter intuitive behaviors… It has proven to be an affective mind control conduit. In that case, advertising people to care more might actually be on the right track in reducing negligence and increasing empathy. perhaps a technological approach? Internetworked self-driving cars could potentially fix this issue- not perfectly, mind you, but I generally find that computers stick to their programming more reliably than humans stick to rules. Indeed, but I don’t think the public is ready to accept such a change in paradigm. “Computers being in control??? But that would lead to Terminator!!!1!!” Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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It doesn’t hurt to be aware of the issue and exercise caution while driving. I believe his contention is that it is as low as it is going to "practically" get. In other words, we are not going to get that big of a bang from our dollars, i.e., the money could be used for other things and have a bigger impact. I mean, you have to decide what is more important, saving lives or educating the public about one, insignificant, source of fatalities? The most important thing to me is reducing congestion during rush hour traffic. One way to do that is by reducing the number of drivers. One way to do that is by letting them die in car accidents. But that's just me ;) Side: Was not expecting that.
In other words, we are not going to get that big of a bang from our dollars, i.e., the money could be used for other things and have a bigger impact. If the ad worked to persuade even one person to take it easy behind the wheel and avoid even one death, I would consider it money well spent. I mean, you have to decide what is more important, saving lives or educating the public about one, insignificant, source of fatalities? Maybe you have to decide on that but I don’t entertain false dilemmas. Saving lives is important; I don’t think there’s any disagreement on my part there. I think the disagreement is whether potentially saving lives to traffic accidents matters if it’s a small amount. i.e. is it cost effective for a commercial when it comes to saving one or two lives over the course of a half a year. I posit that if it works in saving even one life, then it is worth the money invested. The most important thing to me is reducing congestion during rush hour traffic. One way to do that is by reducing the number of drivers. I agree. I think this would be beneficial to the reduction of traffic accidents and fatalities. It’s unfortunate we would rather advertise and promote 'ownership rather than membership' and 'consumption rather than frugality.' Maybe if people weren’t bombarded with hundreds of different car and truck commercials we would feel less inclined to engage in that circus… But then again, I guess those commercials are being used for other things and have a bigger impact. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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If the ad worked to persuade even one person to take it easy behind the wheel and avoid even one death, I would consider it money well spent. Not if the same money could have been used to get even more people to change their minds about something entirely different and save even more people. Saving lives is not really that important. There are 7.1 Billion people on the planet. A lot of them are responsible for global warming. A lot of them are stupid. Some are just plain mean. And we can always make more people. The world is the way it is because it works. For example, the Native American way of life does not work and so the world is not like that. ;) Side: Just your typical Irish advert
Not if the same money could have been used to get even more people to change their minds about something entirely different and save even more people. Using the same amount of money to save lives in another way would be a good use of that money as well. Are you saying that we must choose to do one or the other? I’m sorry if this is what you’re suggesting, but I don’t really entertain false dilemmas. Money used to save lives is a good use of that money. Saving lives is not really that important. It would appear that this is the commonly held belief given the examples our species demonstrates. The world is the way it is because it works. For example, the Native American way of life does not work and so the world is not like that. Lol, it worked just fine before they were killed off. I suppose one could conclude that their susceptibility to foreign diseases and lack of adequate defense against invaders is the reason it didn’t work, but they were at an earlier period of civilization. No telling what North and South America would look like if the Natives were left to grow and evolve the way other nations did, assuming they would have anyway. At any rate, the world may work, but its working like a car in need of a good tune up. If not, it won’t be long before its broke down on the side of the road… only thing is that we can’t call triple A at that point. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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I see. So really small countries shouldnt worry about anything. Whereas big bollocks USA can worry about things that effect only a tiny minority of its population because its bigger. I was wrong anyway. The advert is for northern ireland. So the population size is 1.8 million. Its about the size of a large city in USA. I suppose if only .008 children die per day in a city it doesn't matter to you. Its a very odd logic. If I live in a village of 200 people, and a child dies one a year, you don't feel I should take action against it? Side: Just your typical Irish advert
When I said regardless of population size, how did you equate that to population size determines how much I care? What American issue only affects 1 classroom of people per city? If there are only .008 children dying it is a very well run city almost completely devoid of death. Is Ireland there? If you had a village of 200 people and 1 died every year it would be 200 years of surviving. It would probably be a waste of time even in that situation. It would be far better to figure out how to get the population to double instead of wasting time on the one person who dies every year. Side: Was not expecting that.
If there is nothing worse than .008 children dead in Ireland, then it is a stupid comment. Is .008 children dead per day the biggest statistic in Ireland? Stupid is saying that the population of Ireland factors in a discussion where someone says "regardless of population." Side: Was not expecting that.
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Actually, he's making a very good argument. It is based on statistics and probably has its roots in Six Sigma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SixSigma Economically speaking, it is more cost effective to invest in doubling the population size than it is to invest in trying to save one kid. Especially if you can't predict which is the kid you are trying to save. It is far easier to predict which segment of the population is open to messages of reproduction and targeting them to do just that. I mean, who doesn't want to get laid ;) Basically, it's the law of diminishing returns. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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It's weird because Coldfire disagreed with me but admitted the commercial is worthless. It would be weird, had I said that. Even with commercials lacking significance I think we could have commercials discussing significant issues. Indeed, such as preventable traffic related deaths. Side: Just your typical Irish advert
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