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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day

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Debate Score:12
Total Votes:14
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 What if God and Jesus are 2 different people? (12)

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jolie(9806) pic

1 point

What if Thor and Odin are two different people?

Or Dracular and Nosferatu?

Or Mohammed and Allah?

Or Joe Smith and that angel Macoroni?

See where I be goin' with this?

All me questions are as equally as valid and substantive as yours.


Which is to say....Not very. As they ALL dwell in the realm of mythos and fiction.

Hope this helps.


1 point

Exactly. This debate, like your argument here, is not very substantive. ;)

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Yet you still won't show me how prophesy fulfilled lacks credibility

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

This scripture prophesy also have a cluster of prophesies that would need to be fullfilled for each to be fulfilled.

So prophetic intrusion by God in His Word, takes predictions to prophesy, which is predictions based on possibility, to prophesy - pre-written history, which is complicated.

But it also knits prophesies together in clusters like cells, building history.

Complicating even miracles of prophesy to clusters of prophesies ALL needing to be fullfilled for the next in a cluster.

If you really look at prophesy, and realize it's difference from "predictions"

Then you realize prophesy is like layers, with many prophesies knit together like cells all dependent on each other for each individual fulfillment, I think it's a greater feat than cells mutating and accidentally on purpose resulting in intellegent design!

My argument is God has proven Himself through history, as the Bible was being written.

Can you show me how it's not detailed in prophesy with an accuracy as if history was knit together, as your cells in evolution?

And can you show me any historical documentations of the Bible that is riddled with inaccuracies?

Another Prophesy:

Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion

(Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10).

Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10 to 13th power.)


KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I can only hope that you reread what I wrote a few times, and pause and ask yourself questions like, what was their experience, and how would those predictions make sense?

Like, I can predict my mom may have a heart attack over the next ten years, we'll she has high blood pressure and sometimes it's out of control. So I can predict that and be probably 80 % sure that if she lives beyond 95, she will likely have a heart attack in 10 years, is an educated prediction.

If you live in 1975, and understand the political climate, along with the rate of social, economical, and technical advancements and progress, I can make scenarios that are a likely prediction, maybe greater than a 30 % chance I'd be correct.

Spreading years further. Say you were in 1776, you could make a series of predictions for Americas future based on knowledge you have of other civilizations, and studies of governments, historical and current frictions, wars, climate, and political patterns. And you could have a high % of direct hits on some predictions, and also dead wrong in other predictions.

Say a guy goes to Luna the fortune teller. The guy is a single good looking guy, Luna could predict the guy would find of the love of his life in the summer next year, that's a deductive prediction of fortune telling. Almost like the Captain Obvious in predictions. And we hear every day claims of "I knew it!" "I could feel it!" Or "I predicted that would happen!"

There is a broad base of knowledge to draw from for higher accuracy of predictions in all of these types of predictions.

With that there is an acceptable margin of error that we grade on the curve as perfect predictions, making real prophesy equal to predictions, an then equalize prophesy, desensitized to the difference.

So when we hear "Bible Prophesy" we define it somewhere between all of these types of predictions that's our experience and understanding of predictions or prophesies.

But none of these types of predictions are equal to Biblical Prophesy. Biblical Prophesy isn't a prediction. It is pre-written history with a level of no allowance for margin of error.

The prophets prophesied times and time periods. They prophesied changes in political, regional, geographical, social, economical, religious factors and changes in peace and war. And changes in war. The Bible prophesied the rise and fall of Kingdoms, of Kings, and of Rulers. The Bible Prophesied names enemies and friends, and prophesied every detail beginning to end, all in the pages of the Bible.

The prophets prophesied with complete accuracy, all the time and often from no point of reference. No basis to dream up or imagine events. It would be like Moses predicting the Internet. No point of reference. If you have a phone you can dream up a cell phone, if communication by camel is all you know, your not dreaming up faxing or emailing a letter. There is point of reference for our imagination. Well the prophets point of reference couldn't have dreamed up the accurate details of their prophesies.

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Since you are resistant to if God exists, have you researched historical evidence that make the Bible not credible?

And have you looked at the prophetic evidence to determine if there is no credibility for evidence in layers of prophesy that show a distinct plan purpose and direction leading to layers of fulfilment in order for accuracy, which I equate to greater than mutations and cell selection, because prophesy in the Bible is like cells mutating together line upon line to reach fulfilment of every layer through to the top layers.

Such as Israel being scattered

Then gathered

Then to flourish while around them is enemies who's lands are ravaged

Then to be a cup of trembling to Nations

All layers fulfilled over thousands of years.

they are two beings in one person. it's like what would happen if you could control multiple bodies. from a secret command center. you're both, and neither alone, but still some third thing all at the same time.

1 point

This is a "what if" debate. Not a "this is the way it is" debate. But thanks for playing ;)

0 points

Bang!!! Punk, your luck ran out. ahahhahahahahhahhahahhah

Now ask yourself a question.........say to yourself "If Hell is real, why am I not burning it it now?"

Answer: It as only television, Clint didn't really shoot you, it was just me banning you, I hope you are not burning in Hell.

1 point

What? You can't ban me from my debate.

Anyways, God is the dude in the old testament and Jesus is the dude in the new testament.

And the reason Satan challenged God was because he felt he could get away with it. If Satan felt that he could beat God at His own game, then God must not be all-powerful.

Bang!!! Right back at-ya ;)

luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

A couple things

Anyways, God is the dude in the old testament and Jesus is the dude in the new testament.

John 8:58 has Jesus saying that before Abraham was, I am. That has Jesus claiming to be the God of the old testament since the God of the old testament had the title of I am.

If Satan felt that he could beat God at His own game, then God must not be all-powerful.

That logic doesn't follow. If I challenge the best chess player in the world at chess knowing that he is many orders of magnitude better than I am, does that change the fact that the person is still the best chess player in the world? The same idea can be said of God and Satan. Satan's challenging God is an act of pride on Satan's part because he knows that God is more powerful than he could ever hope to be

0 points

Nope God just had multiple head but he is one and he loves yah