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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

11
22
gays discriminate BSA discriminates
Debate Score:33
Arguments:30
Total Votes:40
More Stats

Argument Ratio

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 gays discriminate (9)
 
 BSA discriminates (20)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(39790) pic



Why are gays discriminating against The Boy Scouts of America (BSA)?

I saw a Facebook page that said that The Boy Scouts of America are discriminating against gays.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=380261098706367&set=a.134715809927565.25148.133972663335213&type=1&theater

How come it wasn't discrimination against girls when The Boy Scouts of America didn't allow girls to join?

The girls formed their own organization, The Girls Scouts of America. There are also co-ed organizations. Gays are free to form their own organization.

As long as different groups are free to form any organization they wish, I don't see any discrimination. But when one group tries to bully the other group by forcing them to change, I do see discrimination.

So..., why do gays  discriminate against The Boy Scouts of America? Why the intolerance? Why not just accept The Boy Scouts of America for who they are? How are gays harmed by an organization of heterosexual boys that enjoy camping? Are the Boy Scouts of America actively bashing homosexuals? Does The Boy Scouts of America hold anti-gay rallies? Does The Boy Scouts of America have Facebook pages stating that gays do not accept heterosexual values and are thus dicriminating against heterosexuals?  Are The Boy Scouts of America actively trying to prevent gays from forming their own organization?

It all seems very one sided to me. Why are gays actively attacking heterosexuals by calling heterosexuals bigots? Isn't that a form of bullying? The same type of bullying gays are trying to prevent from happening to gays?  If gays want to be accepted, shouldn't gays first have to accept heterosexuals?  If gays are free to create gay organizations, why do gays try to bully heterosexuals organizations into changing?  Why don't gays just create their own organization?  What's easier,

gays discriminate

Side Score: 11
VS.

BSA discriminates

Side Score: 22

I would side with the gays on this one if gays were trying to create their own organization and gays were being prevented from doing so by heterosexuals hell bent on forcing their heterosexual view of the world on gays. But that is not what is happening. What appears to be happening is that gays are bullying a heterosexual organization into changing. As if gays are trying to force heterosexuals into accepting the homosexual view of the world. It's like gays do not want to be discriminated against but they are totally fine with discriminating against heterosexuals. I don't get it ;)

Side: gays discriminate
2 points

Private entities are allowed to discriminate against anywho they please. All clubs are discriminatory. The only group that doesn't discriminate is called the "public."

Side: gays discriminate

People should just resign themselves to the fact that it is politically correct for any and all minority groups to discriminate against the majority. That it is OK for the minority to be bigoted against the majority. It's OK to be racists towards whites. It's OK to bash heterosexuals. It's OK to persecute religious groups. It's a one way street. Get with the program ;)

Side: BSA discriminates

To exclude an entire group of people based on an arbitrary factor, be it gender, sexual orientation, skin colour etc, is wrong.

Side: BSA discriminates

So there shouldn't be any gender based organizations? The Boys Scouts should just accept girls?

Side: BSA discriminates
Assface(406) Disputed
1 point

Freedom of association is wrong? Maybe you shouldn't have the right to have an unbalanced number of acquaintances of a certain color.

Side: gays discriminate
ryuukyuzo(607) Disputed
1 point

That's not an argument. That's not even a cognitive statement.

Side: gays discriminate
1 point

BSA can do whatever they want, but they should not be receiving Federal funding. No organization like that should be receiving funding.

Side: BSA discriminates
Assface(406) Disputed
1 point

They don't receive federal funding, as far as I'm aware, but they do receive preferential treatment in making reservations of public property, and are allowed to hold assemblies on army bases and such where regular citizens aren't. I consider it more a matter of trust than discrimination. Like foreign relations, heh.

Side: gays discriminate
LeRoyJames(372) Disputed
2 points

I'm not sure if they receive federal funding directly, but where I live they are allowed to rent some very expensive property, near downtown, for $1/year, so they are definitely getting preferential treatment, and that is the main case that the gays have against the Boy Scouts. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't have an argument.

Side: BSA discriminates

I guess I always assumed that the requirement to join Boy Scouts was that you must be a boy. So it makes sense girls were not allowed to join and so they made their own organization. But it's not called Heterosexual Boy Scouts (and I doubt they would change their name if Homosexual Boy Scouts became a thing), and the implication here seems to be that to be a boy is to be heterosexual, and to be a gay boy makes you unwelcome in a group made for boys. If it was in their charter from day one that you must be a heterosexual male that's one thing, and I think it warrants a name that implies that (Straight Boy Scouts, or what have you). Like if the NAACP only ever supported and argued in favor of colored males, and refused to serve females in this regard, it would be their right to do so but the the "Colored People" aspect of their name would be misleading and giving a false implication, as they don't fight for colored people, they fight for colored males. To the best of my knowledge you can be male and also be gay. So if the requirement for Boy Scouts if to be a boy, they should let in gays; if the requirement is to be a heterosexual boy, they ought to call it Heterosexual Boy Scouts.

Side: BSA discriminates

The reason that girls are not allowed in the boy scouts is due to the potential sexual tension it may create on the boys or the girls. Especially during the teen age years where hormones are raging. Homosexuals in the boy scouts could potentially create sexual tension on the homosexual boy during his teen age years when his hormones are raging.

The implication here is to reduce the potential for sexual tension which may lead to sexual harassment. For example, a bunch of straight scouts harassing a gay scout or a bunch of gay scouts harassing a straight scout, "Hey Johnny, want some of this. Come on. You know you want it."

Scout masters, I'm sure, would not want to deal with this. But more importantly, they are not trained in such matters. It's up to the parents to teach their children about sex and sexuality. Besides, by the time it is uncovered, the damage may already be done. So it's better to put boundaries in place as a preventive measure.

It would be great if children didn't tease each other mercilessly but we have to deal with the real world, not pipe dreams in the sky. Schools realize this, which is why they hand out condoms instead of trying to teach abstinence. Bet on human nature every time and you'll win more often than not.

To recap: The Boy Scouts is a place to go have fun while learning about outdoor stuff, not a place to learn how to deal with sexuality and different sexual preferences. In order to achieve this goal, the organization tries to create a "sterile" environment by removing things that may detract from the stated goal. They recognize that human nature is such that it sometimes to leads to sexual tension which in turn may escalate into sexual harassment. In order to minimize this potentiality and maximize the focus on the stated goal, girls and homosexuals are not allowed.

Anyway..., it's all common sense to me..., but I'm sure I must be homophobic for entertaining such notions ;)

Side: BSA discriminates

This is the longest, most troll-free post I've ever seen from you, joe. I'm flattered to receive it.

I didn't know about their "don't ask" policy. I based my opinion on the issue on you frequently calling it a "heterosexual organization" in the debate description, but if what you said is true it alleviates much of my concern. If an emphasis of sexuality of any sort is absent from the Scouts, it is not a gay or straight organization, it just is, and I have no problem with it.

I would like to point out, however, that if they do have a "don't ask" policy, the Scouts and the masters are already dealing with homosexuals in the organization - they just don't know it.

but I'm sure I must be homophobic for entertaining such notions ;)

Not at all. Not any more than having a negative opinion about Israel's politics makes anti-Semitic, or resisting radical Islam makes me a racist Islamophobe.

Side: BSA discriminates
1 point

Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it discrimination. You're using the word wrong. The BSA is discriminating against gays. I think they should have the right to do so, but it's still discrimination.

Side: BSA discriminates

I have to get people riled up somehow..., don't I. ;)

Side: BSA discriminates
0 points

It's called the Boy Scouts. That's why the girls had to make their own group.

But it's not called the Heterosexual Boy Scouts. So gays shouldn't have to make their own group. ;)

Side: BSA discriminates

Maybe..., but I am willing to bet that if there was an organization called "The National Association of Ass Holes" that did NOT allow gays, that gays would not be all up in arms wanting to join because, "It's not called the Heterosexual National Association of Ass Holes. So gays shouldn't have to make their own group." ;)

Side: BSA discriminates
1 point

There are asshole gays too!! ;)

Side: BSA discriminates
Assface(406) Disputed
1 point

They could've changed their name. But they didn't, because beyond the simple termage of the group, there is an essential component to the Boy Scouts' values of training boys to be men. Exclusion of homosexualites is no different: it is a result of the spirit in which the group was founded, and to bully the Scouts into sacrificing their philosophy in the name of "equality" is abhorrent.

Side: gays discriminate
1 point

The wouldn't the implication be that they couldn't possibly turn/train a gay boy into a gay man? Or that to be gay is not to be a boy or a man?

Side: BSA discriminates
riahlize(1573) Disputed
0 points

Seriously? My post was a joke.

Side: BSA discriminates
riahlize(1573) Clarified
1 point

Just to clarify, this is just a joke.

Side: gays discriminate