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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


Debate Info

13
19
Yes! Wait, what? No!
Debate Score:32
Arguments:22
Total Votes:33
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes! (11)
 
 Wait, what? No! (17)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(40130) pic



Should lying about your identity in order to have sex be considered rape?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117630/jed-rubenfeld-rape-law-feminists-debate-force-versus-non-consent

Rape should be defined as an act of force.

Rape should NOT be defined as an act without consent.

Yes!

Side Score: 13
VS.

Wait, what? No!

Side Score: 19
1 point

In a way, yes. The person isn't consenting to have sex with the person you really are.

Side: Yes!
Jace(5211) Disputed
1 point

So... anytime you are not wholly truthful about who you are and have sex with someone you are raping them? Basically, we are all almost always raping each other at the same time every time we have sex. Got it.

Side: Wait, what? No!
Hitler(2364) Disputed
1 point

This is not a dispute. This is a truth supporting my side of the debate. ;)

Side: Yes!
1 point

Rape should be defined as without consent because there can be forceful rough sex where there is consent. So defining by force is idiotic.

Side: Yes!
Atrag(5666) Disputed
1 point

You don't get it. The issue is whether you define it as a forceful sex without consent or whether you define it as sex without consent.

Side: Wait, what? No!
0 points

No one is saying to lie to get sex. out contention is that it aint rape.

Side: Yes!
1 point

So, she wouldn't have sex with you if she knew the real you? This is like... if she thinks she wakes up with her husband laying next to her but you really snuck in late at night and then had sex with her in the morning, she consented to who was there but do you think it would be okay if she found out? Would you want this to happen to your mother, sister, or daughter?

Faking your personality acts on the same principle: she thinks she knows who you are, but really you are someone else.

Side: Yes!

No. it should be considered fraud. Rape is sex without consent. If someone lies about themselves to get sex but their is no force, it is not rape.

Side: Wait, what? No!
Hitler(2364) Disputed
1 point

But they consented to have sex with the false person, not the real one.

Side: Yes!
1 point

yes. They consented. That's the point. .

Side: Wait, what? No!
Atrag(5666) Disputed
1 point

Any agreement is invalid if consent is obtained through fraud. Why not an agreement to have sex?

Side: Yes!
1 point

Its fraud, not rape. I am not going for this argument. If fraud constituted rape, a lot of people would be rapists. Plus its and insult to real rape victims.

Side: Wait, what? No!

The way I see it:

It is rape if you clearly state to the person that you don't want sex but they physically force you into it. If you enjoyed the sex however, it isn't rape.

Side: Wait, what? No!
Hitler(2364) Disputed
1 point

If you enjoyed it and didn't originally consent to it, you're a severe masochist but it's still rape.

Side: Yes!
thousandin1(1931) Clarified
1 point

The physiological response to sexual stimulation is not voluntary. If you are stimulated in a sexual way, and you are a generally healthy person with a normal hormonal makeup, you will respond with sexual arousal and you will experience some measure of physical pleasure from the experience.

If you are a fully functional heterosexual male, and you are restrained and fellated by another male, you will become erect from the stimulation, and will likely even orgasm from it.

This is something that is poorly understood by most people. One of the worst things that some rape victims endure- the kind of thing that has them scrubbing their body with Brillo pads after the encounter- is the fact that despite their lack of any conscious desire to have sex with their rapist (much the opposite, really), they still responded to the touches in a sexual manner, became physically aroused, and may even have had an orgasm. It's as if their own body betrayed them.

This line of thinking also contributes to the fallacy that a man cannot be raped by a woman. Nonvoluntary physical signs of arousal do not imply consent.

Side: Yes!
1 point

Although in this case the consent is obtained through a misrepresentation, the person is still consenting to have sex with the person they see in front of them. There is no more information that they need. They are consenting for that body to enter them.

It is clearly immoral to lie to someone to get them to sleep with you but this is not sufficient to send someone to prison. This is particularly important when you the unusual treatment of sexual offenders in the USA.

Side: Wait, what? No!

The term rape is already overused, and as such serves to downplay and dilute the suffering of those who have been subjected to the worst of it.

Take 'date rape' for example- a person being drugged unconscious and taken advantage of. This is certainly a horrible thing to do to someone, and is certainly worth criminalizing with heavy penalities. But, it's a far cry from being forcibly raped by, say, a trusted loved one while one is awake and conscious for the entire experience. I'm not condoning date rape by any stretch of the imagination, but the two simply don't even compare.

If we're to call it rape when someone lies about their identity to gain consent to sex, that makes the problem worse. Now the term is diluted even further, downplaying not only what the victims of forcible rape suffer, but also what the victims of date rape suffer.

It should not be considered rape, and even if we were to make it illegal, exactly how could we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the average defendant was misrepresenting his identity?

Side: Wait, what? No!
1 point

So if I say my name is Carl, but it is really Bob, and everything else out of my mouth is true... at the end of having sex if I say, "hey, my name is really Bob," does it make sense for her to scream: "RAPE!" ? No.

Side: Wait, what? No!
1 point

This is a very good question. Rape is defined as something you are forced to do, and even though one is lying about ones identity you are not forced into doing it. Therefore, based on the definition of "rape" you cannot say lying about your identity in order to have sex is considered as rape. But it is definitely considered as a huge betrayal, which deserves its punishment.

Side: Wait, what? No!