Darkyear's Waterfall
Like I said, there is nothing particularly unusual about the Jewish Diaspora. As far as the modern establishment of Israel, again, it is not too unbelievable that the mere presence of the "prophecy" in the Bible could have increased the likelihood of that event.
Yes it is. Everyone knows that everyone lives everywhere. I wouldn't even know where to start for finding a source, since it is so very common. If you are unaware of this, never spent time in a big city, read history, known people from other countries, I don't know what to say. Besides, I'm not the only one who can go online.
Can you show me your support of this.
Of what? The first part is common knowledge. The second was logic-based speculation.
And also can you show prophetic notification declaring it will happen?
Of course not. You are the one supporting prophecy here. I'm the one who has skepticism regarding prophecy.
And any purpose of it in pre-written history documented would be helpful.
Yes, it would be very helpful to you to have this data. Unfortunately, I know of none, but feel free to research it.
1 -to scatter them to all the Nations
Not uncommon. All of the 5 major religions have diaspora communities around the globe. There almost certainly American, British and Chinese folks in every country. The authors were Jews, and their people had already known war, slavery, mistreatment throughout their early history. It isn't much a stretch to think that a) they could believe that state of affairs would go on, b) that it actually WOULD go on. Not guaranteed, but far from unlikely.
2 - then bring the Jews back from all the Nations He had scattered them, which are also other detailed prophesied! And bringing them back was fulfilled after ww2.
Interesting thing that. If the Christians hadn't converted the Torah into the OT, a lot of the prophecies would have been forgotten. Perhaps even the connection to the Jews. But of course, that's not what happened. The OT was common knowledge to the majority of Christians by WWII. Because the US and most UN member states were predominately Christian, elected officials were pressured to support and fund the modern foundation of Israel. You could call it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It almost seems if it weren't for Israel life wouldn't be quite as disturbed.
What does Israel have to do with almost anything outside of its immediate vicinity over the past few years?
What is Light?
Visually perceived radiant energy.
Can it be in three time periods at the same time?
No.
Is God known as Light?
I don't know. You tell me.
Does He give Eternal Life?
There is no way to have eternal life.
Did anyone writing the Bible understand the speed of light, or was that a scientific realization of modern day?
The speed of light was determined by Olas Roemer in 1676.
Light is neither omniscient or omnipresent. Most religions equate light and day time with their gods, probably because night is scary and dangerous.
Again did these ancient writers understand the science of Light?
There is no evidence that they understood any form of science, much less how light works.
So like it, or not this IS reasonable evidence,
Not if it is using Biblical quotes to support a Biblical claim. Its like using a fictional book that introduces a character and later kills him, and claim that those events happened in real life without any outside evidence showing that this character really lived in died.
I do not know why you can't understand this.
There aren't "numerous divisions". There are a bunch of people all working together to find the truth a bout a very complex scenario where there is still much that isn't fully understood. There are people who have different hypothesis for now, but the idea is to work to get rid of the weakest ones and work with what remains. They aren't in different camps, and they won't continue to support their hypothesis if it gets proven wrong. They are also all working to reduce the necessity of interpretation.
Christians, on the other hand, the all have the exact same book to work with. A book supposedly infallible, indirectly authored by God, who is supposed to be a God of Love. Yet, they sometimes have vast disagreements based on interpretation. On occasion, they have warred with each other. If God is perfect, this should never happen, unless he had nothing to do with its authorship.
The Bible is valid as a historical document.
Not according to anyone who is not Christian, or to many Historians, even some who are Christian.
We are not focusing our discussion on the supernatural in our debate, we are discussing history and accuracy in pre-written history.
We are discussing the validity of the Bible are we not? If anything stated as fact in the Bible is wrong, then the whole Bible is suspect.
Show me how the Bible isn't authentic to itself.
You can't assert if something is correct by only referring to that something. This is incredibly basic logic.
So we are looking at the possibility of Divine knowledge through its history! And through its accuracy in prophetic writings known as pre-written history or foreknowledge.
Feel free to provide any prophecy you want. However these are the widely accepted criteria:
It must be accurate.
It must be in the Bible, but fulfilled outside of it.
It must be unambiguous.
It must be improbable.
It must have been about events that could not be known by the authors.
But its just your opinion that this is the writer's opinion.
Most of those points were factual. Numerous things mentioned in the Bible are impossible.
Also, you should use quotes and give credits when you are using somebody else's words. From this point on, I will not respond to plagiarism.
Adding or interpreting scripture to comport with real world observations or rule out the many inconsistencies. Worse is when they attempt to twist observations to comport with scripture.
Here is a list of Biblical claims that are impossible, extremely improbable or absurd. There is also a link to a list of biblical inconsistencies.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/
How are any of your examples of "fulfilled" prophecies not vague? You used the words/phrases "interpreted", "some scholars believe", and "been suggested to be" as support. But none of those kingdoms are intrinsically linked to those symbols or metals. And there were many kingdoms all over the world when those prophecies were written. Its pretty easy to cherry pick the four biggest ones and say "see, the prophecy was true", but without more clear and indisputible details it sounds just like the prophecies of people and religions all over the world. And according to them, their prophecies came true too. Its confirmation bias. Any psychologist will tell you. That's 95% of all religion and spirituality. Making up stories to make yourself comfortable with the world.
As far as the Resurection there is supportive evidence that makes that probable for the skeptic and our faith.
Such as?
Millions of people endured loss of everything or martyrdom for Jesus and the Resurection.
That is an evidence, that holds weight and I makes the evidence credible.
By that logic, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism are all true too.
Just because people were willing to sacrifice their lives for their beliefs does not mean their beliefs are correct.
Your "evidence" can all be torn apart in seconds by any first year philosophy student.
Evolution is an obvious example.
Your vague attempts to reconcile the two conflicting origin accounts in Genesis.
Your examples provided of "prophecies" which are extremely vague and could be interpreted in countless ways.
The weak arguments Christians often use when inconsistencies within the Bible are pointed out.
The fact that there are numerous different branches of Christianity that are interpreting the exact same words in various different ways.
The fact that creationists on other Christians claim to respect science but disavow findings obtained by using the scientific method but cannot use the SM on their own claims.
The fact that the Bible was "edited" at the council at Nicea.
The explanation that responding to prayers is up to God, thus making it impossible to verify their effectiveness.
The fact that when we claim there is no solid evidence for Christ, they point to writers who were born 50-200 years after the resurrection, and obviously never met him.
I hope that's good enough for now.
The ones you cited were vague, and one was, according to your own source, older than the believed date of the actual writing. All of the rest were based on people trying to interpret it by looking at then near contemporary history. None of those things are indisputably representative of the kingdoms they are said to predict.
You misunderstand me. I'm saying that the sources you use, the Bible and presumably various other Christians, have been forced to twist real world observations, or ignore them, to make any sense of the Bible. It is confirmation bias at its most obvious.
I guess it depends where you decide to glean your information.
No, it depends how you obtain your information, and how you test it. Just taking the word of a very old book that was written by numerous people who were superstitious and bigoted, AND has numerous inaccuracies is not being rational, wise or objective.
Actually observing nature and recording those observations and measurements and constantly learning more about the world is where truth comes from.
If you seek those that twist things to agree with you, then you refuse evidence to the contrary, again a mistrial
Correct. That is exactly what you are doing.
Right. So man was created after the other creatures. However, in Genesis 2:18-2:20:
"18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."
Man was created before the other creatures.
When we go to trial, we include every source of evidence all prespective, not just from sources that support a pre determinef conclusion. Investigation and trial without an independent fair objective investigation is a mistrial.
Which is precisely why the Bible would never stand up in trial. What you are accusing me of, is exactly what you are doing. There are hundreds of peer-reviewed published studies supporting evolution published every year. There have been countless such papers over the course of several hundred years. We have made predictions based on evolutionary theory that have proven correct countless times. We have used evolutionary theory to revolutionize medicine. We have SEEN evolution occur right before our very eyes, more times than we should expect to. This is all objective investigation performed by people all around the world, including MANY who were personally opposed to evolution, yet were forced to accept the evidence.
After all the evidence is looked at, we all make a jury decision.
I do not believe for one second that you have looked at all of the evidence for evolution.
After all the evidence is given an objective review, do we find God Exists beyond a reasonable doubt, or that He doesn't exist beyond a reasonable doubt.
Neither. There is no confirmed evidence for God, which suggests the default position of there being no God is more likely to be true.
If evidence is excluded from objective reviw, you don't have a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt, all you have is a mistrial!
Which is why your complaints lead to a mistrial here. Also, amusingly, its worth pointing out that creationism has actually been shot down in actual trials while evolution has been supported in actual trials.
Evolution, as you demonstrated, leaves alot to the imagination as well.
Nope. We already covered this. The Theory of Evolution has more evidence than anyone can count. For a new aspect of the theory to be brought in, it must comport with all of the others. If an older element cannot comport with new evidence, it is disregarded. So imagination is not relied on. It is a matter of completing an extremely complicated puzzle.
Also, Christianity sure leaves a lot to the imagination as well, particularly concerning God. Exactly what process did he use to convert dirt into life? Why use a flood to punish mankind when he had a million of cleaner tools at his disposal? Why did he give us the ability to reason, when doing so will push many away from his word? etc.
There is more evidence for Divine Intruder hands down in every area of life and our world.
Not in ANY process we have ever investigated. Never.
If you only try to define God through something meant to disprove Him, and your not open to true investigation and answer the unanswerable, without even an imaginative theory, then how can you declare Affirmatively the denial of His existence?
If you only try to define God through something meant to prove Him, and you're not open to true investigation and answer the unanswerable, with nothing more than an imaginative story written by superstitious bronze age folks, then how can you declare Affirmatively that he eixists?
Because in other scriptures it is said 1 Day is as 1000 Years and 1000 years is as 1 Day.
Which is meaningless and simply makes it harder to trust the veracity of the book.
Then end time prophesies detail earth related cataclysmic natural events. Doesn't Earth seem to have come to a place in time that it needs a rest from Man?
There are always cataclysmic natural events. Nothing anywhere near what this planet has gone through in the past. If Yellowstone blows, THEN we have a problem, although we have survived it before.
