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Joe_Cavalry All Day Every Day


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Debate Score:72
Arguments:48
Total Votes:90
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Why do people resist gay marriage?

We have argued the reasons for gay marriage and which tactics should be persued.  But we have yet to discuss the flip side.  Why is it that there is so much resistance to gay marriage?

Could it be that straight people feel like they are being manipulated or is it that they're all homophobes?  They can't all be homophobes.  Not in this day and age.  They can't all be biggots, not in this day and age.  

And yet, if they feel they are being manipulated, which arguments make them feel that way?  If they feel manipulated by a particular argument for gay marriage, maybe we can stop using that argument.

For example:  

When I hear someone claim that the term marriage is superior to the term civil union, my perception is that that the person believes that other people will not accept civil unions on their own volition and that, therefore, the people's perceptions must be manipulated.  One way to manipulate people's perception of a thing is to associate the thing with something people perceive as positive.  If you want the reverse response, you associated it with something people perceive as being negative, like Hitler and Nazis.

A concept like gay marriage needs to be able to stand on its own merit.  Without any need to associate it with anything.  It is its own concept.  Unique.  People must see it for what it is and accept as such.  People must not be forced into viewing it through rose color glasses (or glasses of any color).  In other words, the other side shouldn't associate gay marriage with something negative in order to discredit it.

The problem with trying to manipulate people is that people are not stupid. They know when they are being manipulated and they push back. That is what I see happening right now with gay marriage. Which is why I advocate not pursuing that tactic (to both sides).

 

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5 points

The same reason some resist nationalized health care.

Most people don't think about how their opinions affect others before devoting their time into spreading those opinions.

3 points

Probably because they have been exposed to one of those gay pride parades.

Side: gay pride parades
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
1 point

WTF does a gay pride parade have to do with opposition to gay marraige?

Side: gay pride parades
confused(45) Disputed
1 point

Have you ever been to a gay pride parade? People half naked, wearing S&M;outfits. Does that sound like they'd fit in middle America? Does it sound like they're just like everybody else? Does it sound like the kind of people you want adopting children or teaching your children at school?

Side: gay pride parades
3 points

People resist gay marriage because:

1. They are personally or emotionally uncomfortable (Logically Invalid)

2. Their religion defines it as wrong (Prescriptive but logically valid)

3. They disagree on biological & medical grounds (Logically valid, with complexities)

4. They have Ethical or Moral objections. (Logically valid, but extremely complex, more so than #2 or #3)

There are no other general reasons for rejecting ANYTHING related to our human sexuality including prostitution, beastialogy, nor pedophilia Think about it logically.

Now, you didn't ask WHY gay marriage SHOULD be rejected or accepted but to consider this corollary to your question: since #1 is an invalid argument only #2, #3, and #4 are valid reasons. There are complexities for all three. For #2, which faith system is really TRUE - they are typically mutually exclusive so, for example, both Islam and Christianity can't be true - they can both be wrong, but only one COULD be true, not both. #3 would include evolution, human reproduction, disease, health concerns, as well as physical birth defects. Psychology would also be involved, but arguments get complicated really quickly. For #4, the foundation of ones ethical and moral system make this exceedingly complicated. Philosophy, religion, law, common law, etc over the history of mankind really complicate this reason - but it is a legitimate reason.

Side: no legitimate reason

Great argument. Can you craft a debate around it? ;)

Side: no legitimate reason
2 points

Why do people resist gay marriage?

There's only three reasons

1. they think some god thinks it's bad.

2. they have no idea what being gay is, therefore think it can be learned, therefore think it's somehow bad for society, therefore they're just kind of dumb.

3. they're just assholes.

Despite the attempt to make it sound as if there must be more too it since so many people have a problem with it, which seems to be the basis of the description.

Every argument against ultimately boils down to one of those three things.

None of them the least bit legitimate.

Side: no legitimate reason
agathoszoe(4) Disputed
1 point

As for argument #1, I agree; if a person authentically buys into a system of faith where homosexuality is defined as bad (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bahá'í, Jainism, others) then for them, it is bad; Regarding argument #2, yes, if a person has no external reasons to reject homosexuality (and thus, gay marriage) they problably would be persuaded to be more open and accepting if they were exposed to some sincere, kind, and loving gay people.

#3 is not a valid, logical, or reasonable argument. It is an "ad hominem" logical fallacy at best and will only create conflict, not solutions.

Side: no legitimate reason
2 points

I got two reasons, one is obvious the other is based on Christian belief.

1) Look at the flippin "plumbing"! Poop shoots are for exits only!

2) Most Christian believers know that its wrong cuz like the cute little saying goes "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!"

Side: no legitimate reason
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

2) Most Christian believers know that its wrong cuz like the cute little saying goes "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!"

1. If you believe in a god, you believe he created everyone. And people are born gay, so he did create adam and steve.

2. It's moot anyway, because we evolved over millions of years, and every mammal and every generation of every mammal has had a percent of gay members.

Side: no legitimate reason
Socalguy Disputed
2 points

There are a lot of straight people who are doing each other up the poop shoots and sex with animal, incest, raping & molesting young children lot other type sex and they have been doing it for thousands of years So this argument that allowing gay to marry would open the flood gates to all kinds of deviant sex acts, Well guess what that flood gate have already been open and guess who open it... Adam & Eve and not Adam & steve As for that argument about god saying it wrong is no where in the bible and anyone said it does, really don't know the bible as well they should.. As for that argument that if they have gay marriage then they will start to teach gay sex in school.. Hell most schools teach very little or nothing about straight sex or STDs look at all the young girls who having babies or boys and girls who are getting STDs before they finish high school. plus marriage and sex is just to beget children, Well there are a lot of straight marriage people are unable to or unwilling to have children and still having sex plus old people who getting married and having sex Should we tell them they can't get married because just because "GOD" said so

Side: no legitimate reason
agathoszoe(4) Disputed
2 points

Homosexuality is wrong according to an honest assessment and an authentic view of the following faith systems: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bahá'í, Jainism. There are probably others. However, if you are an atheist, then you won't have any such prohibitions to homosexuality or gay marriage.

Side: no legitimate reason

I just try to go with the flow. Which means I go with whoever has the best argument at that particular point in time ;)

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

Well, for the same reason Atheists resist God, because it doesn't exist.

But, this doesn't mean that those who do believe in it should be denied by the government.

Side: because it doesnt exist

the only reason people deny their fellow citizins rights to marriage is that they are homophobic

Side: no legitimate reason

The only reason?

It's not that simple. For example, some people want government to stop using the word "marriage" and replace it with the words, "Civil Union."

Side: no legitimate reason

They resist gay marriage because they're fags. Fags are fags. They do faggish things that the majority of people dont like. You can't change them. Only they can change themselves if they want.

Unfortunately, fags don't usually want to change. Best to just ignore them. Their opinions are outspoken, but they get snuffed out eventually. Such is the nature of fags and faggotry.

P.S. I don't know why most people refer to gays as fags. That's unfair. Just because someone is gay doesn't necessarily make them a fag. Shame on you.

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

They want to force their beliefs on other people .

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

They are bigots who wish to force their bigotry on other people.

Side: no legitimate reason

That's like saying that the other side are gays who wish to force their gayness on other people ;)

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

People shouldnt care if people are homo, it doesn't effect peoples daily life. Even if it is your religion, people need to worry about themselves.

I have a gay friend and he no different from my other guys friends, just because he likes boys. So it doesnt matter. So grow up and don't worry about it

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

It's ovious: because they hate ethnic gays. It's been going on for thousands of years. Time our military did something about it!

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

A pre-existing bias that has existed since before the Christian church, but was certainly helped along by the Catholics and members of other various faiths including those of the Abrahamic origin.

Also people are assholes.

Side: no legitimate reason
1 point

Just imagine: those peaceful ethnic gays, sitting in their homes in Gayland, their little gay children sucking their cocks.

And then they are driven out of their homes, and sent out of Gayland!

Their gay families are destroyed.

I think it's time we did something about ethnic gay cleansing!

Sending our troops to countries bordering Gayland could be a good start.

Side: no legitimate reason
lupusFati(790) Clarified
1 point

I was going to think of something witty to say, but then I realized you weren't worth the effort. Since you're not even serious about it. But meh.

Side: no legitimate reason
0 points

Because it doesn't exist. Marriage is marriage. And that is defined as between a man and a woman. End of story.

So if they gays want to invent their own union they should go for it. As long as they can't sue religions for not letting them get married in their churches and that kind of stuff.

The question is why don't they want to make their own unions?

Side: because it doesnt exist
1 point

I have to say this argument made me sick. "Marriage is marriage. And that is defined as between a man and a woman. End of story." "So if they gays want to invent their own union they should go for it." If 'they gays'??? What kind of term is that. Being one of the only openly gay baby boomers I know, I would say believe what you believe but do not call us the gays!

Side: because it doesnt exist
1 point

Okay sorry. I won't use that term anymore. Anything els?

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Side: because it doesnt exist
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

1. we define words and can change the definition whenever and however we feel. ex. in the 18 century Africans were defined as inferior, and so enslaving them was just fine by "definition" link

Obviously that they were defined as such was not, and should not have been, the "End of story" right?

2. Marriage has several definitions anyway, only one of which is between a man and a woman. Another is simply a ceremony in which two people (notice the lack of sex in that description) are joined in a union,

another is a close relationship between any two things, "the painting was a marriage of contemporary and classical styles." You're not suggesting that styles of painting have sexual organs are you? I mean since marriage is "between a man and a woman. End of story."

As long as they can't sue religions for not letting them get married in their churches and that kind of stuff.

So... your fear is that gay people will sue, if they can't get married in a certain church?

Really? So, it's okay to discriminate against a group of people, in the off chance that if we stop discriminating against said people, they may at some point sue someone for something...

Brilliant logic there Jake.

I have a better idea. How about if we just let people get married if they want and stop worrying about what other people do.

The only argument is that a group of people is being discriminated against. And the majority of people are allowing it,

that's immoral, unfair, and quite unconstitutional.

Side: no legitimate reason
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
2 points

1. we define words and can change the definition whenever and however we feel

True.

Africans were defined as inferior

Nobody is doing that right now.

Obviously that they were defined as such was not, and should not have been, the "End of story" right?

Well hey, there's other options. I just think it would be easier for them to make their own union but they don't want to. Not my fault.

Really? So, it's okay to discriminate against a group of people, in the off chance that if we stop discriminating against said people, they may at some point sue someone for something...

What!? How is that discrimination? We have freedom of religion. If a religion doesn't believe homosexuality is right they don't have to marry homosexuals.

I have a better idea. How about if we just let people get married if they want and stop worrying about what other people do.

We tried that already. The people didn't vote for it. Remember?

Side: because it doesnt exist
unknowngurf(3) Disputed
1 point

Your right marriage is marriage so why does it matter, if it's than same sex, oh it doesn't because that isn't effecting you personally, so leave it alone, because it has nothing to do with your life. wow have a open mind.

Side: because it doesnt exist
0 points

"Why is it that there is so much resistance to gay marriage?"

1. the concept of gay marriage is just a mockery of the institution. it's like celebrating you're retarded. when a child burns it's fingers on a hot stove, do we celebrate that? do we teach the child to do it again or do we do the exact opposite? teaching the child to get burnt over and over again would be a mockery of parenting. in the same way gay marriage is a mockery.

2. homosexuality is a choice. it is a choice in the same sense that smoking, eating junk food or alcoholism is a choice. some people are prone to be that way. anyone that claims it isn't a choice in this sense is de facto claiming that epigenetics isn't science. we're basically being taught to admire alcoholics/smokers/obese people/gay people. shouldn't the opposite be the case? shouldn't we admire people that choose not to drink/smoke/be fat/be gay even though they're prone to be that way? some people start smoking/drinking/eating junk food very young. one could argue they were born that way...

3. gay people are promiscuous. this is a result of it being a choice. promiscuous people shouldn't get married.

4. marriage is an option, not an obligation. this is true for everyone. if you aren't fit for marriage, don't get married. it's not mandatory!!! similarly, if you buy a car just so you don't have to be ashamed for not having it, you're doing the wrong thing that won't make you happy!

5. marriage is not a human right. human rights are access to water, food, medicine, etc. all very basic stuff. it is not access to cock or ass. even fucking electricity isn't a human right. it's a commodity.

6. gay males make up 1-3% of the public and yet they transmit over 2/3 of all new hiv infections (only sexually transmitted included). - source: www.cdc.gov now, how does this happen if they aren't promiscuous?

7. 1 out of 3 gay men has a wife and children. isn't that another proof that it's a choice? don't give me that crap about this being peer pressure. nobody gets married to a person of the sex they aren't attracted to because of society and peer pressure.

8. even if gays are married does that stop them from having sex-partners outside marriage? no. but they most likely won't get a divorce because there's nothing to be faithful about. according to some statistics an average gay relationship lasts about 18 months while both partners have sex with an average of 8 other people.

9. marriage aka matrimony is a word that means mother's office (mater+munus). just like the pope has an office (the papacy) and the us president has the oval office, a woman has an office and it's called marriage. this implies that the woman has a job which is creating the next generation. mocking her office by having two fags married is like having a member of the pussy riot take the office of the pope or having a member of al qaeda take the oval office. what kind of a monumental moron would you have to be not to have a problem with that?

10. marriage isn't about celebrating love. that's what relationships are for. marriage celebrates the (most likely) coming of the next generation. getting married knowing you will not have children is a mockery and should be sanctioned.

11. gays use a spectrum to define or explain their sexual orientation. they convinced themselves that they are born gay even though they began being attracted to same sex at age 6, for example. they're either lying to themselves or they're born aged 6.

12. not even adults in their 40s (especially lesbians) are sure about their sexual orientation. why? because it's a choice. how can a woman that had a dozen boyfriends switch to girls in her late 20s and realize that she was born a lesbian?

13. ellen degenerate switched to girls. she was having sex for years with a mentally unfit woman named anne hecke which is rape in my book. she is now in married to another switcher that gave up on men. if portia wasn't born gay than ellen is gay raping her. if she was, her husband straight raped her in the past.

14. the gays don't want marriage. most of gay movement leaders aren't gay at all. they're agents payed to reach certain goals. they gather activists like feminists, politicians, bloggers, tv faces, actors, musicians, teenagers, vegans, etc to push for their ideals because it's against hate and discrimination while it promotes what's right and just. who would be against that, right?

"Could it be that straight people feel like they are being manipulated or is it that they're all homophobes? They can't all be homophobes. Not in this day and age. They can't all be biggots, not in this day and age."

idiotic dilemma, bub. i am a homophobe and i'm proud of it. you see, i'm defending the society, the country, the world i grew up in. you're the attacker and yes, i do feel right to defend it with all my might. there cannot be a feeling more right than this. not doing anything would be worse than taking my own life.

"And yet, if they feel they are being manipulated, which arguments make them feel that way? If they feel manipulated by a particular argument for gay marriage, maybe we can stop using that argument."

gays have no valid arguments. for fuck's sake 30 years ago the gay movement protested marriage (heterosexual, of course) because they saw it as a form of imprisonment. they did so probably because they had no idea what it's about. the wife traditionally became "property" of the husband and even loses her last name. of course, these are just relics of the past. no one treats wives like livestock. people don't trade them. but that doesn't stop the fags from protesting. it would be easier to explain these simple facts to a martian. how can there be people that don't understand these things? it's this colossal disproportion of what is so well known to people that it needs no explanation on one side and idiots, provocateurs and plain fascists for whom no explanation is good enough on the other that is dividing society further and further.

"For example:

When I hear someone claim that the term marriage is superior to the term civil union, my perception is that that the person believes that other people will not accept civil unions on their own volition and that, therefore, the people's perceptions must be manipulated."

you're asking the people to accept this wonderful new idea that a mexican peso is worth the same as the american dollar. it is you who have to prove that your idea is better than the old one and it can then get implemented. the gays did none of these this. they know if they did all of their propaganda would fall apart. all they do is lobby and push for legislation that aren't backed by anything scientific and there is absolutely no scientific debate about any of the "issues".

"One way to manipulate people's perception of a thing is to associate the thing with something people perceive as positive. If you want the reverse response, you associated it with something people perceive as being negative, like Hitler and Nazis."

this is exactly what the fags are doing. a rainbow is a symbol of god's covenant with man, one of the most positive symbols in judeo-christian world. what did the fags do? they took it and put it on everything they have. today no one associates rainbows with anything other than fags. it's difficult not to hate these bastards and i'm not even religious!

"A concept like gay marriage needs to be able to stand on its own merit. Without any need to associate it with anything. It is its own concept. Unique. People must see it for what it is and accept as such."

a concept first has to go through stages of development. it can't become reality overnight unless you want it to fail. people do accept it as a concept but they don't accept the push for equating marriage and the homosexual "marriage". the name cannot be the same.

"People must not be forced into viewing it through rose color glasses (or glasses of any color). In other words, the other side shouldn't associate gay marriage with something negative in order to discredit it."

people are forced to accept it. a million people in paris protesting gay marriage and no one twitched. i explained on the top why gay marriage is a complete waste of everyone's time.

"The problem with trying to manipulate people is that people are not stupid. They know when they are being manipulated and they push back. That is what I see happening right now with gay marriage. Which is why I advocate not pursuing that tactic (to both sides)."

people are stupid but they have instincts and they are rarely wrong.

Side: because it doesnt exist